Government still exists post-SHTF

[Bucket]

Up here, the only government-y things I see (unless I go into Kirkwall) are the bin collectors every fortnight, so will carry on normally , and assume normal conditions if the bins get emptied again.

Of course, if anything unusual happens (more people coming up the road) then hide, just like when the Jehovah's witnesses come round.

[I-K-E]

depends on how the new government is setup but more than like I'd be looking to stay out of the way until I can judge what is happening

[Straight Shooter]

your dead right there BP ...... long gone pal

[BDG]

Ask them if they had terms or if they were just going to unconditionally surrender?

Seriously - not draw attention, if they come knocking let them know that this area was under the control of a different power.

[SealDriver]

I tend to read a lot of history and in most of the accounts I have read where civilisation failed the way people treated each other was utterly appalling.

There is an account of a group of Russian soldiers (World War II) that got trapped behind enemy (German) lines, so they hid in a coal mine. They waited for the Russian Red Army to counter attack, but it never came. To survive they turned to cannibalism, eating the injured soldiers and then the younger and less experienced soldiers first....When the Germans found them the Officer and NCO's were eating the last of the enlisted men. They were captured and then shot so not a great survival plan really.


Child or slave soldiers, sexual abuse, religious and tribal genocide, I dread to think what might happen in any number of situations. I reckon that even the most well educated and sane people would eventually turn to the darker side of survival if things got really bad. Nature or nurture? We are the product of our environment so a severe change of environment and the behaviour brought on by mass hysteria, followed up by the attempt to justify their actions would make groups of people fearful of reprisals and other people coming into their area.


In most scenarios we also forget that we have plenty of professional criminals in society already. Being that they live outside the 'excepted norms' already and that they have a very different mindset in the first place, would make them idea survivors and their ruthless attitudes and ability to frighten and intimidate would make them into ideal leaders. Just look at our Government, Captains of Industries, Bankers etc, they share a similar psychotic behaviour as criminals although they justify this by calling their ruthless attitudes 'the gift of leadership' and call it 'The Warrior Gene'....yeah right!


I have worked for a long time with convicted criminals and one thing I know of them is that 99% only say 'I'm sorry, I regret my actions' when it means that they will get something positive in return for saying 'Sorry' they only say it to manipulate a situation in their favour...they don't feel sorry at all, so imagine if you will a world where criminals, politicians, groups of people etc who have lost everything because of or partly due to 'The Modern Western, Lawful World Society Model' failing......I would imagine that anarchy would be high on their agenda.


And as for 'Lone Wolves' wolf packs break up and reform when survival is at stake, some wolves may never go back to a pack and may even remove themselves completely from that territory.

[bigpaul]

(20 December 2012, 10:05)SealDriver Wrote: some wolves may never go back to a pack and may even remove themselves completely from that territory.

yep, my point exactly, when the world falls apart i will remove myself and go into the "back country" of North Devon-its there if you know where to look- and will be very happy not to see a human being ever again.

[David075]

(20 December 2012, 10:05)SealDriver Wrote: I tend to read a lot of history and in most of the accounts I have read where civilisation failed the way people treated each other was utterly appalling.

There is an account of a group of Russian soldiers (World War II) that got trapped behind enemy (German) lines, so they hid in a coal mine. They waited for the Russian Red Army to counter attack, but it never came. To survive they turned to cannibalism, eating the injured soldiers and then the younger and less experienced soldiers first....When the Germans found them the Officer and NCO's were eating the last of the enlisted men. They were captured and then shot so not a great survival plan really.


Child or slave soldiers, sexual abuse, religious and tribal genocide, I dread to think what might happen in any number of situations. I reckon that even the most well educated and sane people would eventually turn to the darker side of survival if things got really bad. Nature or nurture? We are the product of our environment so a severe change of environment and the behaviour brought on by mass hysteria, followed up by the attempt to justify their actions would make groups of people fearful of reprisals and other people coming into their area.


In most scenarios we also forget that we have plenty of professional criminals in society already. Being that they live outside the 'excepted norms' already and that they have a very different mindset in the first place, would make them idea survivors and their ruthless attitudes and ability to frighten and intimidate would make them into ideal leaders. Just look at our Government, Captains of Industries, Bankers etc, they share a similar psychotic behaviour as criminals although they justify this by calling their ruthless attitudes 'the gift of leadership' and call it 'The Warrior Gene'....yeah right!


I have worked for a long time with convicted criminals and one thing I know of them is that 99% only say 'I'm sorry, I regret my actions' when it means that they will get something positive in return for saying 'Sorry' they only say it to manipulate a situation in their favour...they don't feel sorry at all, so imagine if you will a world where criminals, politicians, groups of people etc who have lost everything because of or partly due to 'The Modern Western, Lawful World Society Model' failing......I would imagine that anarchy would be high on their agenda.


And as for 'Lone Wolves' wolf packs break up and reform when survival is at stake, some wolves may never go back to a pack and may even remove themselves completely from that territory.

Great post its making me think a little more on self defence.

[bigpaul]

(20 December 2012, 15:53)David075 Wrote: Great post its making me think a little more on self defence.

AFTER TSHTF/WROL: SHOOT FIRST & ASK QUESTIONS LATER!

[Mortblanc]

Sometimes you guys give me a good laugh!

Your nation has 400 people per/SM. If you loose 90% of your population you still have 40 PSM which is a freeking mob by primitive living/basic agriculture standards. You are not going to "hide" anything for very long. Your neighbors will not have to overrun you, they will simply gather togather and out vote you!

There will always be a government presence and it will always be making the attempt to restructure behavior to its own advantage.

The first thing a group of anglo-saxon decendents do in a crisis is elect a leader, assistant leader and secretary treasurer! You will never escape government and rule of law, even if it is bad law.

This means that you will always be held accountable for your actions, even in crisis. It might not be today or tomorrow, but eventually there will be a knock at the door by someone with a warrant in hand or a mob with pitchforks and flaming brands.

The dream of becomming the warlord of your own region and establishing your own law as you go should be left to those addicted to the digital screen and high tech gaming.

This is espically true in your society where weapons are in limited access and what is available is basiclly useless for offenseve or defensive actions. A government does not have to have superior firepower to dominate, simply more people than you can deal with. A single person with a single Motov coctail or flaming arrow would put an end to all your carefully lain plans in one instant.

Espically disconserting if he is an "officer of the court" operating against an accused hoarder.

[bigpaul]

(20 December 2012, 18:01)Mortblanc Wrote: Sometimes you guys give me a good laugh!

Your nation has 400 people per/SM. If you loose 90% of your population you still have 40 PSM which is a freeking mob by primitive living/basic agriculture standards. You are not going to "hide" anything for very long. Your neighbors will not have to overrun you, they will simply gather togather and out vote you!

There will always be a government presence and it will always be making the attempt to restructure behavior to its own advantage.

The first thing a group of anglo-saxon decendents do in a crisis is elect a leader, assistant leader and secretary treasurer! You will never escape government and rule of law, even if it is bad law.

This means that you will always be held accountable for your actions, even in crisis. It might not be today or tomorrow, but eventually there will be a knock at the door by someone with a warrant in hand or a mob with pitchforks and flaming brands.

The dream of becomming the warlord of your own region and establishing your own law as you go should be left to those addicted to the digital screen and high tech gaming.

This is espically true in your society where weapons are in limited access and what is available is basiclly useless for offenseve or defensive actions. A government does not have to have superior firepower to dominate, simply more people than you can deal with. A single person with a single Motov coctail or flaming arrow would put an end to all your carefully lain plans in one instant.

Espically disconserting if he is an "officer of the court" operating against an accused hoarder.

when was the last time you were in England? things have changed a lot since your country was one of our colonies.

---

(20 December 2012, 18:10)bigpaul Wrote:

(20 December 2012, 18:01)Mortblanc Wrote: Sometimes you guys give me a good laugh!

Your nation has 400 people per/SM. If you loose 90% of your population you still have 40 PSM which is a freeking mob by primitive living/basic agriculture standards. You are not going to "hide" anything for very long. Your neighbors will not have to overrun you, they will simply gather togather and out vote you!

There will always be a government presence and it will always be making the attempt to restructure behavior to its own advantage.

The first thing a group of anglo-saxon decendents do in a crisis is elect a leader, assistant leader and secretary treasurer! You will never escape government and rule of law, even if it is bad law.

This means that you will always be held accountable for your actions, even in crisis. It might not be today or tomorrow, but eventually there will be a knock at the door by someone with a warrant in hand or a mob with pitchforks and flaming brands.

The dream of becomming the warlord of your own region and establishing your own law as you go should be left to those addicted to the digital screen and high tech gaming.

This is espically true in your society where weapons are in limited access and what is available is basiclly useless for offenseve or defensive actions. A government does not have to have superior firepower to dominate, simply more people than you can deal with. A single person with a single Motov coctail or flaming arrow would put an end to all your carefully lain plans in one instant.

Espically disconserting if he is an "officer of the court" operating against an accused hoarder.

when was the last time you were in England? things have changed a lot since your country was one of our colonies.

we have had this topic on this site before, basically the British govt havent got enough troops or police to FORCE their will on anyone, at most they may be able to control London but the rest of the country would be like your wild west !