Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
9 January 2012, 14:25, (This post was last modified: 9 January 2012, 14:27 by 00111001.)
#1
BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
Afternoon all,

hoping for some advice please.

I've ditched the idea of getting a crossbow (for now anyway) so think I've finally settled between these two air rifles...

http://www.keenstackleandguns.co.uk/...-3719-104.html

That's the BSA Scorpion

or there's the BSA Ultra Multi-shot

http://www.keenstackleandguns.co.uk/...-3718-104.html

Both have 10 shot magazines, but the Ultra has the MMC cocking system - a quick flick of the finger and the next round is ready. Supposed to provide less chance to scare your quarry. If I remember correctly the Scorpion is bolt action.

There's not much between them to be honest, £60ish, both come in at less than £500 (which is my absolute limit for the gun - SWMBO says so!) but I'd like to get a scope with it too.

Whaddya reckon? Are these any good? Or is there something else that anyone could recommend within the same price range> Cheaper would be better obviously. Still on the lookout for a 2nd hand Logun S16 Mk2, but they appear to be hard to find!

Cheers!

00111001
Damnit!

Scorpion: http://www.keenstackleandguns.co.uk/prod...9-104.html

Ultra:
http://www.keenstackleandguns.co.uk/prod...8-104.html
Reply
9 January 2012, 14:45, (This post was last modified: 9 January 2012, 14:47 by NorthernRaider.)
#2
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
Here is my first response Smile
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43478117@N00/6432266563/

Here is my reasoning



The Ultimate UK Specification Air Carbine.
Copyright 2011 NR

I decided to undertake a review of my small range on weapons, all of which had shortcomings in one form or another, Skill requirements, delicacy of device, suitability for role etc. in the US the choice is simple IE choose and buy a gun that meets your own needs, but in the UK we have unjust and unreasonable laws prohibiting the public from easily owning fire arms. So we have to compromise.

One thing we are allowed to have is Air Rifles and because necessity is the mother of invention British air rifle makers have developed over the years air rifles that are generally of a much higher quality than found in many other nations.

So we have quality on our side that’s one point, we also have accuracy because most if not all European air rifle makers use top quality barrels in their guns. A good barrel can help overcome other shortfalls in a guns overall usability.

So what about the power system, Spring or PCP (pre-charged pneumatic). There are some fabulous spring guns to have that are beautiful works of art in wood and metal, perfect for a day field target shooting or vermin hunting. Normally they are beautifully made from fine woods and top quality material but this brings up the problem for survivalists of WEIGHT. The average air gunner does not face the possible prospect of having to bug out for days or weeks on end wearing a rucksack and carrying a rifle, survivalists do, weight is an issue which is a minus point in general for spring powered guns. Length is another negative even a decent spring carbine is reaching to 37 to 39 inches some rifles are over 44 inches long.

Then we must look at (for a lot of people) the need for rapidly fired second, third and possibly fourth shots, there are few Springer’s that can easily achieve multi shot capability with even more weight and bulk.

So for me this meant PCP air rifles, can they meet my requirements while remaining affordable and SELF SUSTAINING (can not run to a gun shop to refill it)

So my requirements were thus

Carbine Length IE Less than 33 inches overall
Light Weight IE under 6lbs
Easy to recharge at home IE Fillable from either a diver bottle (poor choice as dive bottles also need refilling) or from a hand operated HP air pump
Multi shot capability option if the owner feels the need for that requirement
Synthetic all weather stock
British made (for spares and repairs)
Commonality between models (for spares and repairs)
Capability of being able to mount top quality fire arms grade accessories if required via a weaver or Picatinny rail.
Affordable
Full power to the maximum legal limit

After much research, trial and failure it came down to the Air Arms S400 TDR, the FX Verminator or the BSA ULTRA.
The Air Arms take down rifle was deemed too fiddly and used wood in its furniture, the Verminator was nearly £900 and made in Sweden. This left me with the BSA Ultra.

So the project began with deciding which ultra to buy, I chose .22 over .177 calibre because some targets survivalists may have to shoot are bigger and require the greater transfer of kinetic energy rather than the higher speed and penetration of the lighter 177. Post-apocalyptic we really have no solid idea of what we may have to face with only an air rifle to hand, so the bigger 'Whack' of the 22 won it for me, but choice of calibre is a personal choice (or group issue if shared logistics are involved)

Next it had to be the Ultra TACTICAL model with the fully synthetic all weather stock, that’s a no brainer as far as I was concerned.
Weight and length were already decided as the Ultra is the shortest and lightest full power air carbine available in the UK. And for those who like a multi shot option you can buy an Ultra for a £100 more as a 10 shot rotary magazine fed weapon. The synthetic stock easily accepts drilling for the fitting of weaver or picatinny rails.

This led me onto the guns air capacity as the weapon is tiny in all proportions including the air tank. A bog standard Ultra in 22 will give you around 35 to 40 shots at full power. Not bad for a tiny carbine in a survival carbine, But I thought it could be better.

So I did more research and discovered that BSA also made another air rifle, fully synthetic stock, etc called the HORNET, its a bit bigger and longer than the ULTRA so it was rejected in my original assessment but it has ONE advantage over the ULTRA that it was fitted with a device called a REGULATOR, this device controls precisely the amount of air used with each shot. A major advantage as the HORNER could muster I believe around 200 shots on one fill, a huge leap over the 40 of the ULTRA.

At this time fate leant a hand when I heard about a guy with the nick name TENCH who frequents the BSA OG forum, he to put it mildly is a mechanical genius as well as a gun nut. He saw the potential of the ULTRA and had owned a HORNET, and an AA S400 and realised he could do better. So over a period of years he has designed and manufactured an after market regulator that fits both the BSA Scorpion AND the ULTRA, When Tench has done his work you are left with a rifle that is still under 33 inches, but instead of 40 full power shots you now get 80/90 out of a single charge, and because the gun is now regulated the power curve is almost level with all shots following the same trajectory. So for £260 for the rifle and £120 for Tench to custom tune and fit a regulator you end up with a gun that shoots easily as well as the ones that cost twice as much.

Tench’s design even improved over the original BS design as his regulators control mechanism lives on the low pressure side not the HP side like the original which means the issue of seat erosion in the regulator is no more ( according to Tench, I just nodded in agreement).

So for £380 plus a pump that will recharge most PCP air rifles I now have a survival carbine that has synthetic furniture, ultra light weight, ultra compact, and is set up to fire 16 grain 22 pellets at 11.98 ft pounds, and because I watched Tench at work I became utterly familiar with the working of the internals of this gun which is always a major plus. For me the BSA is the choice.

In an ideal world my BOB would include a 9MM Carbine like those made by Ruger, Colt, H&K etc, but when reality bites as it does in the UK I think a modified TENCH BSA ULTRA Tactical carbine is as good as we can get, and it is affordable.

If you fancy a larger PCP air weapon the Scorpion is a great choice and it can be TENCH modified as well, but again it costs more. However if you want a springer of similar quality and with the same tactical stock BSA also make the BSA XL Tactical http://www.bsaguns.co.uk/sgun_XL_tactical.php

Tench himself wrote

Modifications to the BSA Ultra Tactical Carbine family
By Tench
Regulators for the BSA Ultra and Scorpion

I have owned an Ultra for a few years now and really like the gun, its handling light weight and compactness.
Mine and everyone else’s only gripe with it is the shot count, this is not a fault of the gun, just the nature of an ultra carbine and the price you pay for the benefits of a very compact rifle, this coupled with a power curve meant a sweet spot of very few consistent shots.

I decided to do something about it.

I designed and made a couple of regulators to fit the Ultra action, I had some very good results from these first regs, they showed a great deal of potential and my own favourite Ultra is still wearing one, but I found they needed regular checks and maintenance to keep them in tune, so it was decided that they where not fit for selling as an upgrade to other ultra lovers. I then redesigned with the knowledge I had gained from the extensive testing of the mk1 and had 2 more prototypes made which have proved to be every thing I was looking for when I started this project, they also fit all models of the Scorpion. I have had a batch of these made to make them available to other Ultra and Scorpion owners wishing to maximise the potential of their BSA.

They will also replace the standard reg fitted to the Hornet, this does also require some additional parts.

When one of these regulators is fitted to an Ultra or Scorpion, it adds about a third to the shot count, from the same fill pressure, more on some guns. The regulated air pressure at the exhaust valve also means that every shot with be of the same velocity, within a few feet per second, which gives more consistent shot placement and eliminates the power curve, until the reservoir pressure drops below the regulator output pressure. The big benefits however come on the .22 versions of these guns as the fill pressure can be raised to the pressure used for the .177 version, without the power going down, this also adds to the already impressive shot count that is available.

BSA Ultra

When fitted to the .177 Ultra, the gun will give 60-65 regulated shots.

When fitted to the .22 Ultra, the gun will give 75-80 regulated shots.

This makes either of these guns a lot more practical to own, for target, as a hunting tool or for plinking fun.

It will also be necessary for ultra owners who still have the standard silencer fitted to upgrade to a different silencer if having one of these regulators fitted.

BSA Scorpion

When fitted to the .177 Scorpion, the gun will give 80-85 regulated shots.

When fitted to the .22 Scorpion, the gun will give 100-110 regulated shots.

When fitting one of these regulators to a scorpion, the silencer will need to be of a type that has a maximum diameter of 26mm to clear the air reservoir. These are available from Belper tackle and gun. The one I chose for my own .22 single shot Scorpion is a Parker Hale silencer which is available in black or silver and does this nicely.
All of these shot counts have been exceeded during development, both .177 and .22 Ultra’s have given 85 shots from 230 bar, and the .22 scorpion regularly gives 110 shots from a fill of 200 bar down to the refill pressure of around 85 bar, with the ability to fill to 230 bar, 140 shots! is on the cards. The actual shot count will vary a little from gun to gun and can also vary depending on the pellets used so please only use my figures above as an estimated minimum of what you should expect.

These regulators are available now.
If you wish to have one fitted to your own BSA Ultra or Scorpion, or buy a rifle from their stock of new and second hand guns with one already fitted, then contact;

Andrew, Bill or Ian at

Belper Tackle and Gun on 01773822525 (closed on Wednesday’s)
Visit their website for full details of their stock.

http://www.belpertackle.com/

They will also be able to supply silencers to suit your regulated BSA should your rifle need one at very competitive prices when bought with a regulator.

The cost of one of these regulators fitted to your own gun is £120 plus £5 if you require return postage.

Reply
9 January 2012, 15:11,
#3
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
Like the bipod grip!

Nice set up. Think that's decided it for me then. Is the Trench mod something that I can do myself, or does it require someone with some mechanical knowhow to install?
Reply
9 January 2012, 15:21,
#4
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
(9 January 2012, 15:11)00111001 Wrote: Like the bipod grip!

Nice set up. Think that's decided it for me then. Is the Trench mod something that I can do myself, or does it require someone with some mechanical knowhow to install?

You need a fairly well equipped workshop to do it, I would reccomend Tench does it, and If possible get it done with a personal visit from you to his house, failing that PM me and I'll explain things erm "" Differently""
It completely transforms a good carbine into a ****ing great carbine.

Reply
9 January 2012, 15:26,
#5
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
Thanks.

Probably won't be able to afford that straight away (read: Wife won't let me spend another £120ish on top of the £450ish for the rifle an scope)

I'm presuming that this is the full power model - I should be able to take down a rabbit at half decent distance?
Reply
9 January 2012, 15:30,
#6
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
I use the single shot version, its more reliable than the multi shot version and £100 cheaper which allowed to to get the regulator and tweaking done. Oh yes its definately the full power version but I'm not discussing power on the main forum.

Reply
9 January 2012, 15:34,
#7
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
(9 January 2012, 15:30)NorthernRaider Wrote: I use the single shot version, its more reliable than the multi shot version and £100 cheaper which allowed to to get the regulator and tweaking done. Oh yes its definately the full power version but I'm not discussing power on the main forum.


Ah, okay - is it bolt action then? There's no real reason I need the multi-shot variety to be honest. I'm fairly certain that if you miss the rabbit first time it probably won't hang around long enough for a second shot, no matter how quickly you can reload.
Reply
9 January 2012, 15:34, (This post was last modified: 9 January 2012, 15:36 by NorthernRaider.)
#8
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
Oh aye whilst i remember this baby just loves being fitted with a 4 x shorty scope, its as through they were meant for each other. HOWEVER I want a metal peep sight for mine as scopes are just to vulnerable, trouble is i cant find a sight to fit and it doesnt even come with a basic sight fitted.
(9 January 2012, 15:34)00111001 Wrote: Ah, okay - is it bolt action then? There's no real reason I need the multi-shot variety to be honest. I'm fairly certain that if you miss the rabbit first time it probably won't hang around long enough for a second shot, no matter how quickly you can reload.

Beautiful slick thumb operated spring loaded bolt and so long as you keep it lubed and cleaned its oh so sweet, AND some bright boy on BSAOG is doing customised versions in stainless I think.

Reply
9 January 2012, 15:48,
#9
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
I'm guessing now it may be better just to buy the rifle then grab a scope to go with it - I was looking at the package deal on the link, but they're the long scopes - and I'm not sure they're any good anyway.

Should keep the missus happy-(ish) if I can get the price down
Reply
9 January 2012, 17:05, (This post was last modified: 9 January 2012, 17:31 by NorthernRaider.)
#10
RE: BSA Ultra or Scorpion (Or Other?)
A short scope compliments the ultra short rifle and it works better to.
FYI here is a link to the earlier thread on this subject
http://forum.survivaluk.net/showthread.php?tid=495

Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)