Law post SHTF

[bigpaul]

(10 February 2013, 14:24)Ghost Wrote: But my point is that they are not breaking the law, because there is no law!
if the rabbit is in my trap its already my property.
Is this where we adhere to a basic set of rules or understandings? And if so who sets those rules? And how do you know what those rules are?

i dont see how you can have laws in a lawless era-as i said before, and even if you had laws in a SHTF era how do you know what those laws are(no TV, no Newspapers, no Internet....and you may not see other people for months, depending where you are could be a year or more)?

[Ghost]

(10 February 2013, 14:32)bigpaul Wrote:

(10 February 2013, 14:24)Ghost Wrote: But my point is that they are not breaking the law, because there is no law!
if the rabbit is in my trap its already my property.
Is this where we adhere to a basic set of rules or understandings? And if so who sets those rules? And how do you know what those rules are?

i dont see how you can have laws in a lawless era-as i said before, and even if you had laws in a SHTF era how do you know what those laws are(no TV, no Newspapers, no Internet....and you may not see other people for months, depending where you are could be a year or more)?

Ha ha..Where did that bit about the rabbit come from? It wasn't in my original post!!
I see your point!

[bigpaul]

(10 February 2013, 14:35)Ghost Wrote: Ha ha..Where did that bit about the rabbit come from? It wasn't in my original post!!
I see your point!

sorry that was my fault!

[Tibbs735]

One idea I've heard is that after the collapse, something rather lovely will arise from the ashes, a new positive stage for humanity, (Dark ages followed by Renaissance, enlightenment etc.) But then again maybe the scale of this societal collapse we are facing will be different.

I would want to be part of semi-democratic group, where leaders are elected, and most things can be changed via voting. There would then be a very short set of rules that can never be changed that are required in any free society (Free speech, right to bear arms, self defense, freedom of assembly etc) except these are all underlined with no room for misinterpretation. The remainder of the rules on the list would flexible and could be re-written to suite the generation living under them. There would also be some clear rules to try and prevent the mistakes of today occurring again.

In a post collapse world, lots of groups of scattered people would inevitably arise. Some would be scraping by, with no time to worry about philosophy or politics. Others would be well established, and with resources and manpower to create a new way of living. Since there would be no general consensus between the groups, I think that we should all try to live by the non-aggression principle. That is, each group is free to follow their own ideas as long as you leave others alone. If someone interferes or tries to force themselves upon your life, you crush them with overwhelming force. Under this system you would be free to live with like-minded people in a society of your own creation. Think of the Roman empire. It was united under one rule-set, then it collapsed. The same area of land is now several independent countries, doing there own thing (aside from the EU )

[bigpaul]

it seems there are a lot of people who just cant help being "social" animals, i dont care much for this, i have seen what the human animal is capable of and it isnt pretty, post SHTF i want nothing to do with other people, i want to be left alone to live the rest of my life in the way i see fit, i wont interfere with other people so long as they dont interfere with me i want no part of their laws and so called "democracy". i believe that post SHTF will resemble more like the old "dark ages" than some sparking new Eldorado that some seem to think.

[Highlander]

(10 February 2013, 10:28)bigpaul Wrote:

(9 February 2013, 23:22)Highlander Wrote: Most laws are what we might call commons sense rules that come naturally,.. the no kill, no steal, the assault laws etc,... if those didnt survive,..what laws would you see coming to the fore?,.. or would you keep these more important laws, but change lesser ones?

i really cant see any of these laws being upheld IMMEDIATELY post SHTF, i mean it will probably be "kill or be killed", someone else who has nothing will want your food stores and will kill to eat, what you gonna do?"oh no, i cant kill him cos its against the old laws!" so he kills you? i know what i'm gonna do!!

(10 February 2013, 12:11)Scythe13 Wrote:

(10 February 2013, 10:28)bigpaul Wrote: i really cant see any of these laws being upheld IMMEDIATELY post SHTF, i mean it will probably be "kill or be killed", someone else who has nothing will want your food stores and will kill to eat, what you gonna do?"oh no, i cant kill him cos its against the old laws!" so he kills you? i know what i'm gonna do!!

That makes total sense. But under current law, could be viewed as self defence, in my opinion.

The thing is, even though immediately after TSHTF laws will become natural laws, kill or be killed, once 'civilisation' has been re-established, will we be held accountable for the 'crimes' we committed during the lawless era?

I should have been more clear, I was thinking we were talking about a time when things were more settled and laws were being made again.

Of course during the early days, it might well be a case that you need to fight for what you have,...or what you want, and that would simply be either self defense or survival,...so I agree with both of you

[Scythe13]

The Crimes in a lawless era is pretty simple.

If people behave lawlessly, and everyone is of the same mentality at the time, the era is lawless, but the laws can still exist. Does that make sense?

[bigpaul]

(10 February 2013, 22:29)Scythe13 Wrote: The Crimes in a lawless era is pretty simple.

If people behave lawlessly, and everyone is of the same mentality at the time, the era is lawless, but the laws can still exist. Does that make sense?

no it dosent.

[Skean Dhude]

(10 February 2013, 12:11)Scythe13 Wrote: That makes total sense. But under current law, could be viewed as self defence, in my opinion.

The thing is, even though immediately after TSHTF laws will become natural laws, kill or be killed, once 'civilisation' has been re-established, will we be held accountable for the 'crimes' we committed during the lawless era?

Of course we will. That is why you need to be very careful. If law and order is restored there will be calls for justice and you will have to justify your actions. Self defence isn't a valid reason now to shoot someone, unless you are plod, so you need to be careful.

Do what you need to do and just remember that you may have to justify it.

It may not even be law and order being restored but local justice where the neighbours gang up on you.

You may not even have done anything wrong. Such is frontier justice.

[bigpaul]

(11 February 2013, 15:57)Skean Dhude Wrote: You may not even have done anything wrong. Such is frontier justice.

best choice then is to stay away from people and have nothing to do with them, which is what i do with some of the neighbours now-i just ignore them-they dont exist