Urban 'flint knapping' arrow heads.

[Talon]

Trying to knap bottles into arrow heads is something i've been struggling with for a couple of months.While it could be argued that it is a redundant skill,it doesn't make it a useless one to learn.I find it a fun (though frustrating) pastime.And while i believe i won't ever have to do it in a survival scenario(though you never know),neither do i think i'm wasting my time trying to learn how to do it.

After all bottles are everywhere,i can't guarantee i'll be close to some plate steel, a hacksaw and a file if i need to make up some quality steel broadheads.A useful survival skill? as useful as making an improvised knife to my way of thinking

[Highlander]

(8 November 2013, 12:54)Tartar Horde Wrote:

(8 November 2013, 11:50)Steve Wrote: Interesting, but ultimately useless unless you take a Tardis back to the stone age.

Your lack of understanding about the subject or the associated skill and application of the technology shows how useless your reply was.

Wouldn't it be better if you explained why you think it is a useless skill to have

I would have thought that this arrow head would do the job as good as any, if stone arrow heads did the job well enough then why not glass, its light weight, and it holds an edge, what more does an arrow head need to do,... thats a question you could answer and explain to us, before I go and try my luck at making one

[Scythe13]

I think Steve was going along the lines of, there are better ways to make them, e.g. filed metal, blacksmithing, or something like that.

He's probably right that it's an antiquated skill, and there are many better options. But this is a cool fun way to do it, and the end result is still an arrow head (even though it'll be a single use head, if you miss the target, or hit a bone). But the fact still remains that you can still learn this skill, and if intend to use a bow and arrow, then this is a valid way to make effective heads.

[Highlander]

The length of time that the guy in the video took to produce his arrowhead, was probably less time than it would take many of us to make something similar from,... say a spoon.

I dont think its just about the material used, but the skill which he demonstrated in making the thing, if I could make an arrowhead from glass as well as he can, I would be making lots of them

[Steve]

It looks like I might be a bit out of step with the forum, so to clarify, hands up who thinks their survival prospects will be improved by being able to make a flint arrowhead.

Get real chaps, you won't be running off into the deepest, darkest forests and surviving like a caveman. You'll eat your dog, then die.

Don't get me wrong, it was an interesting video and everybody needs a hobby, but all the metal in the world is not going back into the ground. Stoneage man would have given his eye teeth for a six inch nail.

[Scythe13]

I completely get where you're coming from Steve. I'm not going to knock you on this. But there may be a time when this skill is useful. So for me, I'd rather learn the skill and have that in the bag, than not know how to do it.

Yes it does make an interesting hobby, and you're right, we won't be planning on running off into the darkest forest. But I'm learning as much of the primitive skills as possible to guarantee something to fall back on. What if you're out and about then come back and find your BOL has been occupied while you were away? Being able to move off and make new stuff would be helpful for the items you make, but also to give you a more positive use of time.

For us, there will be no dog eating. I intend to learn to track (in the process of learning now) hunt, kill, skin, butcher, and preserve. Will arrow heads be a part of that? Yes, big metal broad head ones! But so will a big metal 12 gauge shotgun! Bring me back some deer!

Will I be making broad heads, and primitive knives using these primitive skills? Damn right! To pass time, and to make extra stuff, just in case.

I'd much rather know the skill and never need it, than not know it and never need it. Either way you never need it, but it's a fun thing to learn that could be helpful. I'd rather bust a crumby broadhead I'd made on the cheap, in a sketchy shot, than ruin a good metal broadhead that I'd rather use in a simpler kill shot.

Does that make sense?

[Skean Dhude]

(8 November 2013, 22:38)Steve Wrote: It looks like I might be a bit out of step with the forum, so to clarify, hands up who thinks their survival prospects will be improved by being able to make a flint arrowhead.

Steve,

Some people want to be able to go this far back and learn how to do these things. Some don't. Some want to leaen how to make bows and arrows from nature, some don't. There is a wide difference between us but we all want to learn what we think is right.

[Timelord]

"Knapping" silica based materials produces more than just arrow heads. Other than modern rare ceramic knives, then silica materials like flint & glass are the sharpest possible. For 98% of our history, ancient humans were able to very efficiently and cleanly butcher small to giant game with these implements. They are not useless, just relatively labour intensive & inconvienient to produce & use and in our modern age. The time it takes to strike a simple sharp flake for a knife or scraper is minimal to that which it would take to reshape a metal object with hand tools.
It is a useful skill if you find yourself outdoors with no available modern materials immediately to hand. In areas of the country with flint or chert or even quartz and all areas that glass can be found, then prospective blades/tools are can be seen to be littered across the landscape in the eye of the knowledgable beholder. A struck flint/glass flake will be sharper than 99.99% of any steel bladed implements out there.
I personally will not waste time making difficult to knap arrowheads as they do not feature in my plans, but the ability to be able to strike off in one blow an exceedingly sharp flake to use as a knife or scraper is a very useful skill to have in reserve. It is worth looking at the microlith flint toolkits in their little tool rolls that the Neolithic peoples used to carry around. An efficient lightweight & v.small toolkit for most scenarios in their environment. TL.

[bigpaul]

wife was in another part of the county-we don't live in a flint area- and pulled into the side of the road, she had a look around and she bought me back not only a lump of flint but 3 ready made flint scrapers ,they were just lying on the top of the ground. i grabbed them with both hands and if we are ever in that area again i will collect some more. i don't think these are antiquated items belonging to another age and just dismiss them out of hand, these are useful items. i intend to gain as many skills as possible because post collapse nothing will last forever, not even our food stocks, and knowledge will be the key to survival.

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i am currently trying to make an arrow head out of some bone, another useful skill.

[Highlander]

(8 November 2013, 22:38)Steve Wrote: It looks like I might be a bit out of step with the forum, so to clarify, hands up who thinks their survival prospects will be improved by being able to make a flint arrowhead.

Get real chaps, you won't be running off into the deepest, darkest forests and surviving like a caveman. You'll eat your dog, then die.

Well that would depend on where abouts you live, I can assure you that if a major event happened, then it would not be very long before I would be on the hill and trying for deer, I dont have a rifle so I would take a bow.

I can already stalk to a reasonable degree, and I have the bows,..I also have modern broadheads,... but that doesnt mean to say I would make glass arrowheads and use them if I had that skill

So to clarify,.. my hand is raised

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...error...but that doesn't mean to say I wouldNT make glass arrowheads if I had that skill