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REBUILDING WORLD
18 September 2015, 08:02,
#1
REBUILDING WORLD
I found this site, link at the bottom, which is full of many good old books.
For those that still think you will be OK long term, that is many many years, with whatever you have, read on and please before you start shouting do some research first.
The only point I will make is that it will not need an EMP or the likes to take electricity down and electricity is the King Pin
John

SOLAR PANELS IN A REBUILDING WORLD
Posted on September 17, 2015

Several people a week ask about adding books on Solar Panels and similar technology. It’s a common question so if you’re one of the people who asked it don’t feel like I’m singling you out.

When you think about a post-catastrophe world, one where the industrial and technological infrastructure has failed through a collapse of some kind or a catastrophic event such as an EMP attack or event you need to shift your thinking in very radical ways.

Picture a world where the electrical grid has failed, the factories have all shut down from lack of power, parts, supplies and raw materials.
Picture your children living in that world trying to rebuild from scratch not having grown up in the modern world that we take for granted, children to whom a television and computers and cell phones are simply something the old folks talk about.

Now to address the solar panel and solar power issue… right now without leaving your house try to build a solar panel with the materials and supplies you have on hand and without any use of electricity.

The chances quite high that unless you are a solar panel hobbyist who has some unusual materials and chemical supplies at home that you will fail.
Solar panels are NOT a feature of a post-industrial society trying to rebuild from a failure of the industrial infrastructure.

Solar panels are, in fact, a product OF an extremely advanced technological and industrial infrastructure and cannot exist outside of that infrastructure. The requirements for making solar panels are quite rigid, require large amounts of electrical power and precision manufacturing processes that even now push the limits of our technology to achieve high (i.e. practical) levels of efficiency.
Every couple of weeks or months you run across a story announcing a new breakthrough in solar panel efficiency which just pushes the envelope of existing technology even further.

While people who have survived a collapse or catastrophic event will undoubtedly salvage whatever solar panel technology they can and use them as long as they can the simple brutal reality is that lacking a modern technologically advanced infrastructure they CANNOT BE REPLACED. Even the relatively low tech lead-acid batteries would be difficult to manufacture.
So what’s my point?

If you are serious about trying to rebuild after something like an EMP then stop thinking short term. If it’s something you cannot manufacture a replacement for then it is Modern Tech and falls under the category of short term survival salvage. When it wears out or breaks it’s gone and you can’t replace it except by more salvage. Eventually the salvage runs out.

So prep all you want. Buy all the solar panels you want and plan to use them as long as you can but also think about when they break, wear out or fail.
What then??

That’s what the Library is for and about… the What Then after the modern equipment breaks and wears out, when there are no more solar panels and tractors and boots and axes and saws and pots and pans to salvage.
What then?

The Librarian
http://www.survivorlibrary.com/
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23 September 2015, 09:11,
#2
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
Well as of now I see 103 views and not one comment, thought or reply.
No agreement or disagreement.

I assume the final words 'What then?' do not concern anyone.

May be I'll have the record for the number of views to a post but no comments.
John
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23 September 2015, 13:00,
#3
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
either everyone is in full agreement with everything you wrote John, which I somehow doubt very much! Tongue or its " WTF is he talking about? SHTF will only last a few days, a few weeks, a month at the most, then its back to "business as usual!!".
Unfortunately most people these days have never been through truly hard times, so they have no idea how bad the bad times can be.
Just because the world has enjoyed a tremendous amount of prosperity for the last several decades does not mean they will always be that way.
Some people that prefer to be alone arent anti-social they just have no time for drama, stupidity and false people.
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23 September 2015, 15:45,
#4
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
For me ,candles and lamps and wood for the heat and light and hot water ,it will not be fun ,but will be better than bugger all ,if I need to bug out cant see me taking my solar panels with me in my bob
just read alas Babylon ,so im going to get more salt!!!!
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23 September 2015, 18:09,
#5
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
The way i see it John.....is ...the only way to survive would be within a group...when all runs out ...but well before that happens people will adapt and thrive...its what we do as humans, smelting rock to make iron tools ...great if you know how....and some will, along with most other early skills....stability within a group can and will facilitate this.....but only within a group/tribe ....i have not looked at the link on purpose.........time scale ? there is a lot of steel iron...we are talking many generations into the future.....I or you will be long gone so its how we would leave and teach the required information for those future souls.
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23 September 2015, 21:56,
#6
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
I've never calculated how long it would take a stainless steel saucepan to wear out, or how long a stainless carving knife takes to be sharpened away, but I'll bet it's a long, long time.

How long does a copper cable last ? Or a steel wheel ? I have 100 year old iron wheels that are perfectly useable, and a 1954 lathe, 1939 milling machine, 1950 metal shaper, all perfectly serviceable.

My chisels will last for as long as I care for them.

I really don't buy into this "back to the stone age" stuff.
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24 September 2015, 08:25, (This post was last modified: 24 September 2015, 08:28 by bigpaul.)
#7
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
neither have I Steve, but without mass production everything will be back to a simpler way of life.
as we have said before many times, if there are loads of survivors then any "resources" that are left will be used up very quickly, without factories or even the knowledge to make things, people will be using up what is left lying about.
does anyone here know how to build a solar panel, a wind turbine, a water wheel, from scratch from basic materials? because I sure as hell don't!
how do you repair solar panels without knowing how to make spare parts?
how do you repair anything when the spare parts are no longer on the store shelves?
you revert to a simpler lifestyle based on putting food on the table, anything else is an added bonus.

but then most people don't know what the hell John and I are talking about anyway, most people think mankind is "too big to fail", I just think we've got further to fall is all.
Some people that prefer to be alone arent anti-social they just have no time for drama, stupidity and false people.
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24 September 2015, 12:18,
#8
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
First I haven't looked at the information on John's link, if that has any bearing on anything.

Secondly I'm in total agreement with what Steve has posted.

Thirdly, John's post is of a familiar theme to others he has posted (take the pencil example) and is focused solely on the situation that after an event, the world will lose all traces of its manufacturing capabilities, including the factories etc and all associated knowledge and that everything that has ever been manufactured, will also, over a finite time period, simply turn to dust. And furthermore that mankind will not evolve during this time or develop alternative strategies or techniques or technologies and therefore all of mankind is doomed. Well, as an engineer myself, I don't agree with this or see that as being a likely scenario.

In my opinion, even if mankind cannot manufacture new Solar Panels after any future event (which is a possibility), you can be sure he will use and cannibalise whatever he can get his hands on and additionally, other maybe more primitive means of generation will quickly be developed, even if they are Heath Robinson in nature.

And if we are in that situation, lets not forget that the future power needs are only going to be a tiny fraction of todays requirements!
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24 September 2015, 17:15,
#9
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
just because some people believe "it'll never get that bad" we shouldn't even think about it never mind discuss it? that's like saying "i will plan for A,B and C" but what happens if D,E, or F happen? shouldn't we have an open mind to ALL events not just our personal "pet" ones? its not like any of us have a crystal ball or a time machine, none of us know what is going to happen, but with all the things that are happening in the world today, I don't think now is the time to be complacent.
I suppose if no one has ever encountered a severe event during their lifetime then the possibilities become more remote to that person of it ever happening.
I suppose this is what is meant by "normalcy Bias".
Some people that prefer to be alone arent anti-social they just have no time for drama, stupidity and false people.
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24 September 2015, 17:33,
#10
RE: REBUILDING WORLD
I think we need to be careful that we are not mixing up 2 different issues here.

How bad it gets, and whether or not resources; equipment; tools and knowledge etc remain are not interlinked.

You could easily have an end of the world as we know it situation and massive die off etc, but that doesn't mean that plant, machinery, structures or other equipment will simply be turned to dust. If that were the case, then "NONE" of us will be left to see it anyway as we are far more fragile and delicate than steel; iron; concrete; masonry; copper or even most plastics!
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