PMR446 v Walkie Talkies

[Devonian]

I'm one of the many who are baffled, yet fascinated by all of the threads on radio communications. So far I have my trusted CB which I know and understand and use on a regular basis, but that is vehicle mounted and may not always be to hand when needed.

I therefore keep reading the various threads about the UV5/Ham/Pixie radios etc etc but never quite progress things any further.

But I was intrigued by the following comment made by LS which I have extracted and copied below, to avoid hijacking the Pixie Radio thread:

"...generally speaking, for a handheld walkie-talkie radios do not expect more than 3 to 5 miles range, and in the case of license free PMR446 radios expect the range to be from hundreds of meters to a maximum of 3 miles. The reason is that this sort of radio generally operate on frequencies that almost only travel as far as you can see ( literally, if you can see it your signal can reach it) and when the transmitted radio waves reach the horizon the carry straight out of our atmosphere into space..."

Given the above, why would any of us bother with the PMR446/UV5's ???

Surely decent Walkie Talkies such as the recently discussed BF-888's are therefore all we need as they are portable; "easy" to use (don't need programming), cheaper, reliable and have as good if not better range than other (non-ham) portable hand held radios.

Plus you can have a normal spoken conversation and do not need to know morse code or start stringing lengths of copper wire antennae up the side of your drain pipes etc...

Or am I missing something???

[Skean Dhude]

You are not the only one that gets confused over comms.

The fact of the matter is that there are so many requirements and no single device will do them all so you have to work out what you want and then find out what can do each part.

I did an article on this somewhere where I explained what I wanted my comms to do and I needed a bit of everything. Not cheap at the top end.

[NorthernRaider]

We only covered this a short while back in depth didnt we??

Walking talkies according to our sage LS are of .5 watt power and have fixed rubber duck antenna, the lesson he taught me was its not more power that is needed, though it does not go amiss, but the best possible antenna is the way to get the best performance. In the UK Walkie Talkies are normally tuned to PMR 446 channels 1 to 8 @.5 watt

Walkie Talkies come with comprimise rubber duck antenna and this according to LS is what limits its capabilities, plus the limited channels could be an issue.

UV5Rs have 70cm and 11 Meg frequencies PLUS the PMR 446 channels, you can SELECT .5 of a watt output OR 5 watt output to suit your needs, BUT more importantly the antennas can be quickly swapped out from the little rubber duck antenna and a much better antenna fitted for under £12 thus can greatly boost your range.

Its also easily reprogrammable using CHIRP if you want different frequencies, I for example do not have a ham licence nor do I want one so I deleted the ham frequencies from the UV5 and just put in the 16 PMR & DPMR channels This for me gives me almost private radio use as I have not heard anyone else around here in over a year except on Ch1 and thats the Quarry truck drivers.

I think you can also add MARINE channels among others to UV5R.

So if you just want simple room to room CQ comms get a pair of cheap walkie talkies, but if you want or have a ham licence or want to reach out to others AFTER TSHTF you may find the multi talented UV5Rs are best suited to your needs.

FYI UV5Rs also have an FM radio receiver built in 88 to 108FM and a torch and can be fitted with various accessories like expended battery packs, better antenna, speaker microphones etc

[Devonian]

We only covered this a short while back in depth didnt we??

Walking talkies according to our sage LS are of .5 watt power and have fixed rubber duck antenna, the lesson he taught me was its not more power that is needed, though it does not go amiss, but the best possible antenna is the way to get the best performance. In the UK Walkie Talkies are normally tuned to PMR 446 channels 1 to 8 @.5 watt

Walkie Talkies come with comprimise rubber duck antenna and this according to LS is what limits its capabilities, plus the limited channels could be an issue.

UV5Rs have 70cm and 11 Meg frequencies PLUS the PMR 446 channels, you can SELECT .5 of a watt output OR 5 watt output to suit your needs, BUT more importantly the antennas can be quickly swapped out from the little rubber duck antenna and a much better antenna fitted for under £12 thus can greatly boost your range.

Its also easily reprogrammable using CHIRP if you want different frequencies, I for example do not have a ham licence nor do I want one so I deleted the ham frequencies from the UV5 and just put in the 16 PMR & DPMR channels This for me gives me almost private radio use as I have not heard anyone else around here in over a year except on Ch1 and thats the Quarry truck drivers.

I think you can also add MARINE channels among others to UV5R.

So if you just want simple room to room CQ comms get a pair of cheap walkie talkies, but if you want or have a ham licence or want to reach out to others AFTER TSHTF you may find the multi talented UV5Rs are best suited to your needs.

FYI UV5Rs also have an FM radio receiver built in 88 to 108FM and a torch and can be fitted with various accessories like expended battery packs, better antenna, speaker microphones etc

But the point of this thread was that LS was suggesting:

"..handheld walkie-talkie radios do not expect more than 3 to 5 miles range, and in the case of license free PMR446 radios expect the range to be from hundreds of meters to a maximum of 3 miles.."

If correct, this suggests (to me) that for radio communications within a small group, walkie talkies are superior...unless again I am missing something...?

[Steve]

If correct, this suggests (to me) that for radio communications within a small group, walkie talkies are superior

If, by "walkie talkie" you mean the UV5R or similar, then you are correct. The Baofengs are far superior to the UK licence-free 446 radios unless you need very short range comms, in which case the fool-proof child-friendly simplicity of the 446 sets is useful.

[NorthernRaider]

Steve is right Dev, By Walie Talkie I think you are refering to the el cheapo Argos little pairs of radios and LS is talking about the more professional stuff like the MT50-50 which costs about £80 EACH. The Baofeng UV5s will hands down on all points.

[NorthernRaider]

Perhaps one of the mods could repost LS's Guide to radio comms again here please.

[Skean Dhude]

It's on the main site.

[NorthernRaider]

[Lightspeed]

Hi Devonian

Paraphrasing your OP and answering subjectively

<<why would any of us bother with the PMR446/UV5's? Surely decent Walkie Talkies such as the recently discussed BF-888's are therefore all we need as they are portable; "easy" to use (don't need programming), cheaper, reliable and have as good if not better range than other (non-ham) portable hand held radios..>>

1. Why bother with PMRs?

Because they are license free and can be used legally in the here and now.

Because they are very simple and easy to operate

Because they are made to a strict standard and are pretty much guaranteed compatibility with one another. (PMR has just 8 channels and these are on fixed frequencies)

PMR Negatives

Low power and patch build quality mean that transmit range is not optimised

No facility for external antenna that would help in boosting range.

Fixed frequencies mean greater probability of eavesdropping by others

Relatively expensive for the performance they deliver.

Normally operating life on a full charge is quite limited, as is standby time in the order of 8 hours. Many discharge their power pack in a couple of weeks even when turned off.

Why bother with BF888 type radios?

Because they are very cost effective in terms of power and technical capability.
(Lower cost than PMRs but 4 to 6 times more powerful and twice as many channels)

Because they are very easy to operate ( easier than PMR in many respects)

Because with 16 programmable channels, and frequency coverage that includes the PMR frequencies, they can be programmed with the 8 PMR channels plus another 8 of our personal choosing

Because they have fairly rugged construction

Because it is possible to attach to external antennas to boost range

Because there is a fairly wide range of low cost accessories and upgrades ( power, antennas, hand-mikes etc)

Because standby time measured in days

Because in turned off state, there appears to be no residual current draw.

Because they have a handy torch and signalling flashlight included.

BF888Negatives

THESE RADIOS HAVE TO BE PROGRAMMED using a computer and data cable

These radios cannot be programmed stand alone

Wide frequency range. Pre-programmed frequencies on out of China models will get you into trouble with authorities very quickly if you start transmitting on them in the here and now. The snag is that the channels simply annunciate “ channel 1, Channel 2 etc, but do not detail the frequency)

These radios will not receive nor transmit on the maritime / mountain rescue emergency frequencies.

To transmit with these radios in the here and now a license is demanded, but it is entirely legal to use one to monitor (listen with).

Although cases and underlying chassis are rugged and there is no display screen to get broken, these radios are clearly built to a price. Connectors and switches used in their constriction appear to be very cheapskate. But so far nothing has failed on the single example that I own, so maybe they are stronger than I think.

Why bother with UV5r?

Because they have a huge frequency range which include all VHF and UHF ham bands, PMR frequencies, and marine/mountain rescue emergency frequencies

Because in terms of features, frequency range and build quality they are probably the best value for money that has ever been made available.

Because they have a scanner included

Because they can monitor two separate frequencies at the same time.

Because they are more powerful than BF888

Because they have a much larger capacity power pack than the BF888

Because they can be programmed on the unit itself in the field, but can be programmed and cloned (copying the exact configuration of programmed channel frequencies from one radio to another) using a computer and data cable.

Because they have 100 programmable memories ( channels)

Because they have a visual display

Because they have selectable voice annunciation of channels

Because they are quite robust

Because they have a handy torch and signalling flashlight included.

Because they have an FM broadcast receiver included.

Because there is the WIDEST range of accessories (Power, car kits, external antennas protective cases, hand mikes etc.)

Because standby time measured in days ( greater than BF888)

Because in turned off state, there appears to be no residual current draw.

UV5r Negatives
Complexity: The complexity of setting up these radios is considerable and requires time to understand, and patience to understand the less than complete Chinglish operating manual

Approx twice as expensive as BF888 type radios

There are many variants, with somewhat differing accessory types. Standardization is key to setting up a network of these radios

To transmit with these radios in the here and now a license is demanded, but it is entirely legal to use one to monitor (listen with).


Pixie Radios:
I’ll set up a separate thread to cover the whys and wherefores of the Pixie type radios.

My conclusion:
For me the best solution for a strictly local network (out to say 3-5 miles) would be UV5r radios used by the technically competent, with BF888 type radios going to less technically minded members who just need a simple means of staying in touch. The whole network being based on 16 standard frequencies.