UK sinks into moral decay

[Highlander]

(7 January 2013, 03:20)Mortblanc Wrote: What is the profile of a prepper in your nation?

Or better yet, what is the definition of a prepper in your nation?

I could not honestly answer that question for over here since there are people that think they are preppers and are not, just as there are people that do not think they ar preppers when they are.

The psychological makeup of that diverse group is also all over the map.

Many people over here are unwilling to be grouped into the catagories of either prepper or survivalist although they engage in similar activities, but different behavior/thought patterns.

Also noted is the difference in the behavior of "thugs" in this country. Most urban thugs would never consider leaving their concrete domain and entering the rural areas. They consider it equil to a death sentence. I worked as a teacher in the prison system for several years and that was a constant.

Rural dwellers here are also a different lot. That is mostly due to our vehicle oriented culture. Everyone drives and owns a vehicle and being 30 miles in the bush is simply 30 minutes from town. What we wind up with is urban/suburban dwellers that never venture into the rural areas, except when they may pass through on a motorway, and rural dwellers that are in the urban environment constantly, but would not live there for any reason.

I fall among the latter.

For a start of there is a vaste difference between a prepper and a survivalist,.. the survivalist may never store items of food or goods, he may simply think that if he has his gun and a few rounds of ammo he will survive, the US I have no doubt has millions of survivalists.

Here we will hardly have any, because we dont have the arms and ammo,.. the exception might be the thug in the city

Your first question is not an easy one to answer,.. a preper here is probably a person who in many ways fears whats coming, maybe not fears for himself, but for family and maybe country,... he cant become a survivalist, so he is forced to become a preper, he has no option open to him other than to store good for that emergency, he is a prepper by difinition because there is no other option open to him other than sit and hope for the best

In your country, as I understand it, the preper and the survivalist seem to almost merge into the same group, because a major part of a US preper is his arms and ammo, he is not simply prepping, he is preparing for war, because of the shear number of weapons he has to be able to defend what he has, ...we might have to,.. but never on such a scale as the US

[Mortblanc]

I think what you are interpreting as and American "survivalist" is from a loony fringe that operates mostly on the internet and is a fantacy of the media. That is almost everyone's interpretation so I suppose the media has done its job.

In most cases our Preppers store suppies of all kinds and train out the wazoo for any emergency that might befall us. That might be fire, flood, storm, riot or plague. Generally they have more equipment and supplies than they can move easily so they concentrate on preparing static locations from which they can live and operate.

Survivalists here tend to have a bug out mentality, carrying everything they own on their backs and most of that being weapons and ammo. That usually means the "survivalist" is lower income with his major investmet in guns and ammo and his only interest being the "best pack on the market" and the "Best tarp shelter around".

Preppers tend to be more affluent, able to own property, vehicles and storage areas. They also tend to be more intelligent and able to process the large amounts of varried information they accumilate. Their food supplies may extend for sevaral years, along with their planning and property management. Preppers also do a bit of networking.

In my area there are several groups that get together and plan training. By that I am refering to first aid and medical training, canning sessions, food storage semanars and construction projects. There is extensive use of the services of the University agricultural outreach, American Red Cross and even some of out FEMA sponsered training events.

I am personally more worried about one of our tornadoes ripping me to shreads, an "ice storm" shutting down my power for 2 weeks in mid winter or a chemical spill on the railway than I am of any appoliptic event and the surging horde of canibals it would bring.

Personally, the "roving bands of looters" I fear here in the States are the "survivalists" not the thugs of the urban getto.

[bigpaul]

i dont even know if we have "survivalists" in the UK? i thought everyone here came under the "prepper" banner! i dont know anyone with loads of guns, ammo and a fully stocked bunker.

[Highlander]

Well the media has indeed done the job well, because I am guessing that most of us here think the same as I thought.

So basicly your prepers are much the same as ours, the difference between the two is the attitude given to the prepers,... we could never expect our village/town halls to do prepping style programs,..and I for one envey the US for its exceptance, its probably down to the numbers of prepers you have,..or at least the number of prepers who are willing to say they are prepers,...in this country, we are either of a much lower number, or we are much more secretive of what we do

....and I think from the posts and thread we have read in past weeks, that we also think that most danger would come via thugs from the cities

[bigpaul]

(7 January 2013, 18:39)Highlander Wrote: Well the media has indeed done the job well, because I am guessing that most of us here think the same as I thought.



....and I think from the posts and thread we have read in past weeks, that we also think that most danger would come via thugs from the cities

i dont know if "thugs from the cities" would ever make it OUT of the cities, i mean the countryside must be like an alien world to them?

[Mortblanc]

(7 January 2013, 18:43)bigpaul Wrote: i dont know if "thugs from the cities" would ever make it OUT of the cities, i mean the countryside must be like an alien world to them?

I taught for a yourth rehab program for a year. It was a "wilderness program" where we took the offenders well out into the boonies, housed them in military squad tents and all food was cooked over the campfire. Their tents were a mile from the admin center, the school building was a mile from the other buildings. They had to walk a mile to get anything, then a mile back. Rations were doled out one meal at a time so each meal ment a two mile walk. There was no running water, no electric except at admin and school.

It was not unusual to have one of the 17 year olds, in for attempted murder, break dfown and cry when dark came, espically on their first nights. I have seen them curled into the fetal position beneath their cots because there was a bump in the night on many occasions.

I once watched an urban gang leader/drug kingpin stand in a trance as the sun went down waiting for the streetlights to come on. He went absolutely bonkers when he realized there were no lights.

We had no fence around this place. There were no runaways because the rumor was that the farmers in the area would get $100 for the return of a runaway dead or alive, no questions asked. I can't imagine who would have started a rumor like that?

These people are useless when the concrete ends. I live 30 miles from an urban area that riots on occasion. They average 200 murders a year while my bordering county averages one murder every 4-5 years. There is a river between myself and them and that river is their self imposed boundry. Once when one of their leaders was asked, by local media, why the urban thugs stayed on their side of the river his answer was simple and honest, "nothing over there but cornfields and farmers with shotguns!"

Neither do they have any training that would make them decent in the attack of even a poorly defended position. If things are rough move along to easier pickings. Smash and grab looting is much different from frontal assault against a detirmined defense, even if that defense is only sling-stones and arrows.

Our vehicle culture also insulates us a great deal. If you told one of the urban gang bangers he was going to have to walk 20 miles to get his next meal he would sit down and starve on the spot. Our road system would be gridlocked within a few minutes and no vehicles would be going anywhere. If our people can not drive there they do not go.

Our urban folk are also programed to sit still and wait for the government to come save them. The same urban area across the river from me suffered a full power outage for 5 days several years back. 1,500,000 with no electric. When the electricity came back on the city was down to a 3 hour water supply.

That means if the power goes out long term, with no help arriving, within 7 days there will be waterborne illness raging throught the community. Within two weeks colera will be present. Within a month I will not have to worry about any roving bands of thugs from any direction.

Yes, I have a 2500 gallon water supply, and live on a lake.

Yes I planned it that way.

Does that make me a prepper? I don't know what you would call me. I live no differently than my grandad lived, so I guess you would just call me "old fasioned".

As for the local services holding "prepper events", they do not actually know they are holding prepper training. Our group of aquantences is simply taking advantage of courses and training that is available to every responsible citizen; first aid, emergency response, canning preserves and veggies and tending the backyard veggie patch.

[ObongoPox]

(7 January 2013, 20:01)Mortblanc Wrote:

(7 January 2013, 18:43)bigpaul Wrote: i dont know if "thugs from the cities" would ever make it OUT of the cities, i mean the countryside must be like an alien world to them?

I taught for a yourth rehab program for a year. It was a "wilderness program" where we took the offenders well out into the boonies, housed them in military squad tents and all food was cooked over the campfire. Their tents were a mile from the admin center, the school building was a mile from the other buildings. They had to walk a mile to get anything, then a mile back. Rations were doled out one meal at a time so each meal ment a two mile walk. There was no running water, no electric except at admin and school.

It was not unusual to have one of the 17 year olds, in for attempted murder, break dfown and cry when dark came, espically on their first nights. I have seen them curled into the fetal position beneath their cots because there was a bump in the night on many occasions.

I once watched an urban gang leader/drug kingpin stand in a trance as the sun went down waiting for the streetlights to come on. He went absolutely bonkers when he realized there were no lights.

We had no fence around this place. There were no runaways because the rumor was that the farmers in the area would get $100 for the return of a runaway dead or alive, no questions asked. I can't imagine who would have started a rumor like that?

These people are useless when the concrete ends. I live 30 miles from an urban area that riots on occasion. They average 200 murders a year while my bordering county averages one murder every 4-5 years. There is a river between myself and them and that river is their self imposed boundry. Once when one of their leaders was asked, by local media, why the urban thugs stayed on their side of the river his answer was simple and honest, "nothing over there but cornfields and farmers with shotguns!"

Neither do they have any training that would make them decent in the attack of even a poorly defended position. If things are rough move along to easier pickings. Smash and grab looting is much different from frontal assault against a detirmined defense, even if that defense is only sling-stones and arrows.

Our vehicle culture also insulates us a great deal. If you told one of the urban gang bangers he was going to have to walk 20 miles to get his next meal he would sit down and starve on the spot. Our road system would be gridlocked within a few minutes and no vehicles would be going anywhere. If our people can not drive there they do not go.

Our urban folk are also programed to sit still and wait for the government to come save them. The same urban area across the river from me suffered a full power outage for 5 days several years back. 1,500,000 with no electric. When the electricity came back on the city was down to a 3 hour water supply.

That means if the power goes out long term, with no help arriving, within 7 days there will be waterborne illness raging throught the community. Within two weeks colera will be present. Within a month I will not have to worry about any roving bands of thugs from any direction.

Yes, I have a 2500 gallon water supply, and live on a lake.

Yes I planned it that way.

Does that make me a prepper? I don't know what you would call me. I live no differently than my grandad lived, so I guess you would just call me "old fasioned".

As for the local services holding "prepper events", they do not actually know they are holding prepper training. Our group of aquantences is simply taking advantage of courses and training that is available to every responsible citizen; first aid, emergency response, canning preserves and veggies and tending the backyard veggie patch.

Any large areas of forest near you?Black bears?I only vaguely know that area from the novels of John Yount(Toots in Solitude).Wish it was me living there(or anywhere wild in N America).Britain is like a condensed version of the above-mentioned Oprah watching,dumbed down,dumb-headed modern (sub)urbanity.
Hope that Pine Beetle infestation doesn't totally decimate the forests of USA/Canada.Even though I've never set foot in N America,it's a mythical place I've inhabited in my head since my teens.

[Mortblanc]

Wild/wilderness is a relitive term. My area is rural, but not wilderness. Probably looks much like rural England. Meadows, farm fields, fence rows and broken patches of thicket. Not wilderness but there are deer and turkey that roam the back yard, coyotes kill my hens and the local judge that lives 300 yards away does not go spastic if I shoot a predator in the middle of the night.

We do have spaces of protected forest, owned and maintained by the state/federal govt that are usable for camping, hiking and sometimes hunting. Those are pockets of accessable area spotted about the countryside. Usually there is a preserved area withing a couple of hours driving distance of anyone. I have two wildlife management areas within a mile of my house totaling 2500 acres of state maintained public land available for small game hunting.

Over 1/2 of the U.S. land mass is owned by federal, state or local government. Most of that land is unusable and uninhabitable for one reason or another and will not support economic or agricultural activity. Still, including that land, we number a population that runs 100-400 people per square mile, which is well past the number that the land could support as roving nomads carrying bug out bags. The myth of the nomadic survivalist living out of his BOB is just that, a myth.

And your population is more dense than ours.

The Southern Pine Beetle will not go much past the 38 lattitude. Half our nation and all of Canada is above that so it is not a real concern. We also have the Longhorn beetle that infests hardwoods and the Emerald Ash Boer that takes a toll on the ash.

[Highlander]

Thankfully much of Scotland is more remote, with a small population in the Highlands, although all areas are either owned by the forrestry commission or the estates.

It wasnt always like this, I think I am right in saying that the Highlands are at an all time low population,.. before the Clearences there were far more people around,.. certainly on the west coast

[ObongoPox]

Think I'll go to Canada instead!!!