Guns guns guns...

[bigpaul]

never liked a 177 I consider they don't have the clout of a 22, I use Defiant pellets they cost more but you get what you pay for.

[Steve]

(15 June 2013, 17:33)bigpaul Wrote: never liked a 177 I consider they don't have the clout of a 22, I use Defiant pellets they cost more but you get what you pay for.

I know the man who makes them , they are quality especially in 0.22 . The thing to remember with UK spec air rifles is that the power is so low that anything but a perfect shot results in a runner, and 0.177 is easier to hit the spot with. If you need convincing look at the results of HFT competitions, the .22 guys have their own class because they just can't compete with the 0.177. I used to hunt with 0.22 years ago, but I'm converted now.

[Highlander]

I would also go for a springer [break barrel]... the ammo is a batter of preference,.. the .177 is a smaller piece of lead so doesnt have the hitting power of the .22,... but it is more accurate because its not so heavy

The .22 is heavier so has the more knock down power, but because of the weight of the pellet it will drop off quicker

My advice would be to go to a gun shop who sells second hand guns, tell him that your finds are low, and see what he comes up with,.. at least from the shop you will get a good gun,... and I also suggest that the .22 is the better bet for you

---

spelling was terrible there,... must read back

Matter,.. not batter
funds not finds

[Steve]

Let's clarify a few points regarding the two common calibres, 0.177 and 0.22.

In the UK we are limited to sub 12ft-lb power unless we have a firearm certificate, so I'll concentrate on the sub 12 rifles.

Both calibres will have the same power ( less than 12ft-lb ). Power is a function of pellet weight and the square of velocity, whereas momentum is of weight and velocity, so the 0.22 wins in the momentum stakes, and that can make a difference in "clout" or "terminal ballistics".

That's not the whole story though, with just 12ft-lb you need to hit a very specific kill zone or you will just wound your quarry. When people talk about head shots on rabbits they really mean brain shots - hitting it in the jaw or nose will not stop it on the spot. A brain shot on a rabbit means hitting a target smaller than a 2p piece, if you miss the brain the rabbit will likely as not run off to his hole and die underground. Sometimes a shot will miss the brain and the rabbit will be stunned for a few seconds, and a .22 might give you a couple more seconds to get to it before it legs it, but don't count on it.

What you really want is to hit the brain, and there are two factors that will stop you, trajectory and windage.

Trajectory - how much the pellet drops from the line of the barrel - is flatter in 0.177 due to the faster pellet. Don't confuse trajectory with accuracy, a 0.177 and 0.22 shooting at targets can group as well as each other, but in the field, where the exact distance to the rabbit is unknown, the flatter trajectory of the 0.177 is an advantage.

Windage is often misunderstood too, people assume that the heavier 0.22 pellet will be less affected by the wind but this is untrue. Windage is a function of ballistic coefficient and flight time, it's a complicated formula but trust me when I write that the 0.177 is typically less affected by wind than 0.22.

Proof comes from competition results. 0.177 rules the roost in all UK field events.

[Badgerboy]

Depends what you want to spend and what you want it to do. If you want an inexpensive low maintenance, reliable rifle try Hatsan they have spring and gas ram in their range and you ain't going to find a rifle in their price range with a better trigger.

[Holy Herb]

Thank you all for the help this was exactly what I needed!

[Straight Shooter]

Guy in the next cottage killed 2 foxes about 2 years ago , with a .177 , he swears by the .177 , I have a .22 but no expert me,

[Mortblanc]

Foxes with a .177 ??

Really now!

[Talon]

(16 June 2013, 00:23)Straight Shooter Wrote: Guy in the next cottage killed 2 foxes about 2 years ago , with a .177 , he swears by the .177 , I have a .22 but no expert me,

Using a .177 on foxes whether at sub 12ft lb's or over is cruel and irresponsible.The pellet isn't suitable for a humane kill on a fox.

(15 June 2013, 18:19)Steve Wrote: Let's clarify a few points regarding the two common calibres, 0.177 and 0.22.

In the UK we are limited to sub 12ft-lb power unless we have a firearm certificate, so I'll concentrate on the sub 12 rifles.

Both calibres will have the same power ( less than 12ft-lb ). Power is a function of pellet weight and the square of velocity, whereas momentum is of weight and velocity, so the 0.22 wins in the momentum stakes, and that can make a difference in "clout" or "terminal ballistics".

That's not the whole story though, with just 12ft-lb you need to hit a very specific kill zone or you will just wound your quarry. When people talk about head shots on rabbits they really mean brain shots - hitting it in the jaw or nose will not stop it on the spot. A brain shot on a rabbit means hitting a target smaller than a 2p piece, if you miss the brain the rabbit will likely as not run off to his hole and die underground. Sometimes a shot will miss the brain and the rabbit will be stunned for a few seconds, and a .22 might give you a couple more seconds to get to it before it legs it, but don't count on it.

What you really want is to hit the brain, and there are two factors that will stop you, trajectory and windage.

Trajectory - how much the pellet drops from the line of the barrel - is flatter in 0.177 due to the faster pellet. Don't confuse trajectory with accuracy, a 0.177 and 0.22 shooting at targets can group as well as each other, but in the field, where the exact distance to the rabbit is unknown, the flatter trajectory of the 0.177 is an advantage.

Windage is often misunderstood too, people assume that the heavier 0.22 pellet will be less affected by the wind but this is untrue. Windage is a function of ballistic coefficient and flight time, it's a complicated formula but trust me when I write that the 0.177 is typically less affected by wind than 0.22.

Proof comes from competition results. 0.177 rules the roost in all UK field events.

Excellent post Steve.

[Highlander]

(16 June 2013, 00:52)Mortblanc Wrote: Foxes with a .177 ??

Really now!

I know that this can be done, as there was a report in my air shooter magazine about someone who did the same


Although he must have been very lucky and very close to achieve it I would think