Defence Weapons Lethal non-gun

[Midnitemo]

Some guns yes most guns no....gunpowder is quite simple , casting lead balls and shot yes quite easy too but caps and primers not so simple....that will be the thing that makes firearms quite rare unless we go back to flintlocks and the like....there will be guns around but not in great numbers like the early days of an event.

[Mortblanc]

I'm going to be a good American and stay out of this one.

[Barneyboy]

(30 September 2013, 22:08)Midnitemo Wrote: Some guns yes most guns no....gunpowder is quite simple , casting lead balls and shot yes quite easy too but caps and primers not so simple....that will be the thing that makes firearms quite rare unless we go back to flintlocks and the like....there will be guns around but not in great numbers like the early days of an event.

and they are very loud, unwanted attention I think .they will bring all to were you are, or there about's which is to bloody closes for me

[bigpaul]

post SHTF ANY noise will be heard a long way off, if I can hear someone shooting NOW post collapse so will everyone else!

[Skean Dhude]

I'd be very wary with acid in a water pistol. They leak at the best of times and an acid leak would ruin your day. Plus if someone was to hit it with something it may burst spraying acid all over both of you. Not worth it.

Putting something in that won't kill or main you and will irritate the eyes may be the way to go. That way at the worst you get your eyes watering.

As far as reloading goes you can get plenty of gear to reload for a long long time legally. Guns will be around for a long long time.

[Midnitemo]

(1 October 2013, 18:29)Skean Dhude Wrote: I'd be very wary with acid in a water pistol. They leak at the best of times and an acid leak would ruin your day. Plus if someone was to hit it with something it may burst spraying acid all over both of you. Not worth it.

Putting something in that won't kill or main you and will irritate the eyes may be the way to go. That way at the worst you get your eyes watering.

As far as reloading goes you can get plenty of gear to reload for a long long time legally. Guns will be around for a long long time.

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ooops forgot to write my bit i agree guns will be around and in use for a long time but only a small percentage compared to at the begining of an event...i don't know anybody who reloads shotgun and i'd say maybe a third of my old shooting club reloaded centre fire .. blackpowder weapons are only a small minority of legally held guns in the uk and you can't reload rimfire...all in all i'd be surprised if it were as much as 10% of gun's were still operational at 3 years in.

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when stocks of nitro propellant and primers run out you will be left with black powder weapons , caps can be improvised for these and lead will be available but most other guns will become obsolete...the problem with using bp instead of nitro in rifle cases is bulk , quite often you can't get enough bp in the brass to make it work properly...pistol calibre's aren't so bad but they suffer this too.

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before some smart arse say's you can reload rimfire...if you were being pedantic i expect you could but boy would it be a pain.

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45.70...44.40...et al these are bp cartridges and i would say there are few of these guns in the uk chambered for these black powder cartridges....very few.

[Skean Dhude]

I've a shotgun reloading kit but not used it yet. I just don't have the room or time to try it but I will be buying some reloading stuff. It will last longer than most but I will be working towards moving away from them and into bow and crossbows for longer term.

[Timelord]

Black powder in rifle and pistol calibre was still being used up to and even in WW1 - so that is not that long ago and yes it was effective enough at boring holes through soft tissue. Wind it back another hundred years and it was effective doing the same job but with slightly less reliable ignition systems and using much larger calibre soft lead balls. Please take note of this info - It is not necessary to have a massive fps or muzzle velocity to achieve the objective. Large calibre slow moving projectiles can be even more devastating with horrific results. They don't just bore through or do the hydro static shock effect (which they don't being subsonic, nor do they need to as they are not small projectiles) but the sheer mass impact and resultant unstable shearing/shrapnel effect of the soft lead projectile can remove whole parts of the target and the shearing lead pieces do horrific damage. that is another reason why battlefield surgeons of the day became adept at removing limbs (yes there are other reasons too) but it is a significant reason due to the level of injuries sustained. The military is experimenting with large calibre slower moving projectiles once more, as they have some interesting impact characteristics.
Often there is talk about Black powder (or one of the many equivalent modern substitutes) being ineffective or too bulky to fit in cases or that the guns are horribly inaccurate. This not particularly correct and is missing the point slightly. Obviously BP stuff is not going to be as efficient or utilitarian as modern nitro cellular propellants etc and the hardware has decades and centuries of development - but do not write off the old stuff as it was pretty useful back then. Looking at it with modern eyes and little knowledge of the subject does lead to biased conclusions. I suggest that old BP type weapons (or equivalent) might actually have a resurgence if we end up in a state where our modern capabilities to run the modern gear is diminished. Firstly, it would have to be pretty bad for humankind to forget or to not strive to produce effective nitro weapons at the earliest possible opportunity. If it was a scenario bad enough to rule this level of tech out, then maybe BP tech weapons would be the next back up tech level that humankind would strive for. Across a broad spectrum of possibilities, I find it hard to believe that we would not pursue these tried and tested old tech weapon systems. Even some of the modern gear can be retro-engineered to use old tech propellants. A steel tube, blocked at one end and with a hole in it to ignite a propellant is an ancient idea and not one likely to be forgotten easily. The knowledge of this subject is cast far and wide throughout humanity and is not any longer the preserve of the powerful few. To put it succinctly, "the genie is out of the bottle" & it aint going back in....cause the bottle has been lost in time. This may have some bearing on prep like considerations. :-)

[River Song]

OK - as the OP, may I ask pretty please that we might return to then title of the thread. ....... NON GUN

Thanks

[Highlander]

I am looking seriously at the atlatls, it looks such a good weapon.

....and what about the throwing stick,.. not just a stick, but the weapon native people in Australia have used for hundreds of years

If we are going to use weapons and exclude guns, then we have to look back into history for the best and most effective ones