looting after an event.

[bigpaul]

(17 August 2013, 11:39)Tartar Horde Wrote: The definition of what constitutes looting, and what the population perceive to be looting I believe are two sepperate issues.
If the population has been evacuated to safety with an outlook to returning to their homes and possessions, then anyone who steals/loots from those private properties should expect a lead lobotomy (in the States anyway) and a damn good thrashing over here.
My position is this, if the population has left due to whatever breakdown and has no chance or wish to return to their properties and I take advantage of this by acquiring their abandoned goods, am I a looter?

I have always thought that if the goods in question do not have an owner in residence, do not have a known owner, the owner is dead or is not coming back and therefore to all intents and purposes those said goods have been "Abandoned", then its not looting but SCAVENGING- i.e. making good use of something that someone else no longer wants or needs.

[Tartar Horde]

(17 August 2013, 11:43)bigpaul Wrote:

(17 August 2013, 11:39)Tartar Horde Wrote: The definition of what constitutes looting, and what the population perceive to be looting I believe are two sepperate issues.
If the population has been evacuated to safety with an outlook to returning to their homes and possessions, then anyone who steals/loots from those private properties should expect a lead lobotomy (in the States anyway) and a damn good thrashing over here.
My position is this, if the population has left due to whatever breakdown and has no chance or wish to return to their properties and I take advantage of this by acquiring their abandoned goods, am I a looter?

I have always thought that if the goods in question do not have an owner in residence, do not have a known owner, the owner is dead or is not coming back and therefore to all intents and purposes those said goods have been "Abandoned", then its not looting but SCAVENGING- i.e. making good use of something that someone else no longer wants or needs.

That is exactly what I thought BP, but would TPTB see us the same way, or do you think they would consider us looters. Do you remember the film "threads" about a nuclear attack on the UK? There was portion of the film where British Soldiers shot a man for "looting" in the ruins of a destroyed city, yet the situation he was in is the same one as we have just described.

[Highlander]

I take it we are still talking about survival here, ... how many times have we gone over how we would dispatch aggressors or inflict damage on people outside of our groups/property,... so it does seem a bit strange to be talking about what is legal and what is not.

It depends on the event of course, but I would not think twice of raiding empty houses to gain any extra advantage or supplies in order to help me and mine,...I wouldn't go in shouting and breaking things, I would do it as quiet and as stealthy as I could, but I would still do it

[NorthernRaider]

BP / TH both of you are correct to a point, but IIRC under the emergency powers act ALL abandoned or unclaimed logistics, stores, consumables and supplies cede ownership to the state for the duration. its a sneaky back stabbing way of the govt ensuring it can steal other peoples privately own supplies under the guise of legality.

[Tartar Horde]

Sorry Highlander I was not talking about hurting people etc just trying to clarify a position that could affect people in a SHTF situation regarding the authorities.
Thanks NR that definition was what I was looking for, I now understand that the state would consider all property under their jurisdiction so we would all be considered looters no matter what the physical or ethical situation.

[Highlander]

(17 August 2013, 12:09)Tartar Horde Wrote: Sorry Highlander I was not talking about hurting people etc just trying to clarify a position that could affect people in a SHTF situation regarding the authorities.

Oh its ok TH, I wasn't thinking that at all,

[bigpaul]

i'm thinking more of a TEOTWAWKI type situation, maybe TPTB have a reduced or even non existent role, my area dosent have a large govt/state presence anyway(rarely see a copper and all the police stations are part time) and post shtf this would be vastly reduced anyway, I think this area would be left very much to get on with it especially outside the only 2 cities that Devon has.

[Grumpy Grandpa]

Do it by all means but whether it's looting or scavenging, legal or illegal, right or wrong, there's no accounting for another person's point of view, which may well differ from your own. Another survivor may well, in his/her own mind, have laid claim to an area and if they see you taking what they consider to be theirs...

I think we can debate this one till we're blue in the face (or keyboard fingers ) but the bottom line has to be make up your own mind in the circumstances that prevail but whatever you decide, be careful about it.

[bigpaul]

(17 August 2013, 13:21)Grumpy Grandpa Wrote: Do it by all means but whether it's looting or scavenging, legal or illegal, right or wrong, there's no accounting for another person's point of view, which may well differ from your own. Another survivor may well, in his/her own mind, have laid claim to an area and if they see you taking what they consider to be theirs...

I think we can debate this one till we're blue in the face (or keyboard fingers ) but the bottom line has to be make up your own mind in the circumstances that prevail but whatever you decide, be careful about it.

couldn't agree more GG, no point in rushing in blindly and getting shot by a guard you were in too much of a hurry to spot.

[Kenneth Eames]

The State is a Dictatorship. We are all owned by the State, from the cradle to the grave. You are registered at birth and registered at death. In between you can be forced to do anything they want. Once a law has been passed there is no opting out. If you do and you are found out, you have to face the consequences. Think back, in time of war or, cold war, you can be conscripted for duty. They pretend that they are opposed to Dictators but behave in the same way. There is no democracy, any law passed impinges upon other persons rights who are opposed to it.Kenneth Eames.