Surviving? Is it worth it.

[River Song]

BP

Thank you for that lucid and well considered response.

[bigpaul]

your welcome

[BeardyMan]

(21 August 2013, 20:40)Highlander Wrote: To walk away,... without the slightest thought to someone in distress, is making us as bad as the people committing the crime

I disagree here, if you have others to protect then you have a more important duty than saving others you don't know.

We DO NOT have any responsibility for others, regardless of what anyone says. These people have spent too much time listening to the Nanny State propaganda, and now believe it. Yes, it's nice to be nice, NOW, but as soon as the flag goes up everything changes.

Right and Wrong DO vary depending on the situation.

You walk round the corner to find one man beating another almost to death. You attack the attacker, and in his dying moments he tells you the man you saved has raped his wife and daughter and killed them both.

So you did a good thing there right?
Yeah. Good call.

Personally I'm of the opinion that everyone else can get up to whatever they want as long as it doesn't impact on me or mine. Anything else is foolish and dangerous.

[bigpaul]

(22 August 2013, 13:23)BeardyMan Wrote:

(21 August 2013, 20:40)Highlander Wrote: To walk away,... without the slightest thought to someone in distress, is making us as bad as the people committing the crime

I disagree here, if you have others to protect then you have a more important duty than saving others you don't know.

We DO NOT have any responsibility for others, regardless of what anyone says. These people have spent too much time listening to the Nanny State propaganda, and now believe it. Yes, it's nice to be nice, NOW, but as soon as the flag goes up everything changes.

Right and Wrong DO vary depending on the situation.

You walk round the corner to find one man beating another almost to death. You attack the attacker, and in his dying moments he tells you the man you saved has raped his wife and daughter and killed them both.

So you did a good thing there right?
Yeah. Good call.

Personally I'm of the opinion that everyone else can get up to whatever they want as long as it doesn't impact on me or mine. Anything else is foolish and dangerous.

and that was what in my own ramblings I way trying to say, well done BM, well said.

[Skean Dhude]

Guys, That is one example chosen by yourselves to justify your choices. That is fine.

The question asked though was more clear cut.

The answer for almost everyone though depends on the exact situation. And none of us know that yet.

[BeardyMan]

Actually SD I was using that very simple scenario in response to the posts below

(21 August 2013, 20:09)River Song Wrote: That kind of argument i.e. 'situation ethics' has what's got us into this mess. Ethics are ethics and whats right and wrong does not depend upon circumstances. I will argue that they are firm and fixed
.....

.....
whether you like it or not you do have responsibilities to the rest of society.

(21 August 2013, 20:40)Highlander Wrote: To walk away,... without the slightest thought to someone in distress, is making us as bad as the people committing the crime

The original questions were would you protect a woman from a rapist and would you save a family from highway men?

A big NO to both here, but that doesn't make me as bad as the people committing the acts. Just makes me more averse to danger and more likely to survive than those who think they'll go an play hero.

Skean Dhude Wrote:The answer for almost everyone though depends on the exact situation. And none of us know that yet.

So not much point in answering this one at all then?

[bigpaul]

all scenarios are only what if? come the actual event it will probably be nothing like we imagined....possibly worse possibly not so bad, who knows? all we can do is the maximum we can to ensure we survive! other people will have to look after themselves, as BM has said , despite what the nanny state would have you believe, we are NOT responsible for other people especially POST SHTF.

[River Song]

The situation a la rapist or highwayman are straw dolls designed deliberately to be shot down. IMHO they don't have a leg to stand on.

Being responsible for other people is NOT 'nanny state-ism' but simply a recognition that as homo-sapiens, we have something in common and that is our humanity. Get rid of that idea and all is lost.

Forgive me if I labour the point but there are a number of voices here (usually the same culprits) who would prefer to cut themselves off totally from society. Terms get used such as 'sheeple' etc etc and I can laugh at that because I also see it -- I've been guilty of using terms like 'urban pond life' for which I'm not proud.

But once you get into the mind that you would NOT help another human being because you see them as somehow less than human, then you fall into the same category as the Nazi's who saw the Jews as less than human. You need to be very very careful of where the logic of your position puts you.

I'm sorry of this thread has been turned into an ethical rant but I'm a little tired of the self-righteous go-it-alone attitudes in the name of 'prepping'.
There is another way and that's as resilient communities -- I'll fight for that point of view for a change.

[bigpaul]

people have been banging on about communities since the term prepper was invented, but if you go deeper into the subject you find they are referring to family groups and extended family, i.e. people they know and trust, they are NOT referring to complete strangers, unknown to them prior to TSHTF, trust a complete stranger and you will have to sleep with one eye open in case you get a knife in the ribs in the middle of the night and all your gear stolen....cant happen? don't you believe it, come post collapse and people will revert to the primitive savage, they will have to because they haven't seen fit to put food and water and clothes and footwear back in case of emergencies but spent it all on foreign holidays and Xboxes and gizmos, so come SHTF they'll want what you have and they'll do anything to get it, and I do mean ANYTHING, they are starving-they have to! and people wonder why I want nothing to do with others Post SHTF? I have been on this planet for a long time and I have seen what people are capable of-what they will do to other people and believe me its not pretty, and I want no part of it. during WW2 we had the "Blitz Spirit" and people helped each other but that was 70 years ago, we now have a different generation, a different lifestyle, people do NOT care about others, just look around at places like London, Bradford, Birmingham, Manchester is known as "Gunchester" there are so many shooting, we have the "me,me.me/Iwant it and I want it now/whats it to you" brigade....if you are still not convinced I wish you luck but don't expect me to care.

[BeardyMan]

(22 August 2013, 16:32)River Song Wrote: The situation a la rapist or highwayman are straw dolls designed deliberately to be shot down. IMHO they don't have a leg to stand on.

Yes, they are there to provoke conversation. Same as the ones posted by others.

(22 August 2013, 16:32)River Song Wrote: Being responsible for other people is NOT 'nanny state-ism' but simply a recognition that as homo-sapiens, we have something in common and that is our humanity. Get rid of that idea and all is lost.

You watch the news? Read the papers? Not much "humanity" towards the fellow man at the moment is there?

(22 August 2013, 16:32)River Song Wrote: Forgive me if I labour the point but there are a number of voices here (usually the same culprits) who would prefer to cut themselves off totally from society. Terms get used such as 'sheeple' etc etc and I can laugh at that because I also see it -- I've been guilty of using terms like 'urban pond life' for which I'm not proud.

I think that bit's especially for you BP

(22 August 2013, 16:32)River Song Wrote: But once you get into the mind that you would NOT help another human being because you see them as somehow less than human, then you fall into the same category as the Nazi's who saw the Jews as less than human. You need to be very very careful of where the logic of your position puts you.

It's got NOTHING to do with anyone being less than human, or your views of other, it's down to SURVIVAL! Interfering in other's business WILL affect your SURVIVAL.

This is called SURVIVAL UK isn't it? Are we not all prepping to survive??

If doing whatever I can to protect me and mine (and that includes letting the population do whatever they want to each other) gets me the badge of being similar to a Nazi then I shall wear, and wear it proudly too.

(22 August 2013, 16:32)River Song Wrote: I'm sorry of this thread has been turned into an ethical rant but I'm a little tired of the self-righteous go-it-alone attitudes in the name of 'prepping'. There is another way and that's as resilient communities -- I'll fight for that point of view for a change.

No need to apologise. Good luck with your charitable 'resilient community' - I think you may need it.

---

Let me switch this around for a second - to those that would stop and help - would you expect others to do the same for you?