Police Riot gear

[Timelord]

Proper crossbows will penetrate Kevlar vests. That is why the police are so shit scared of them. For the common cheap nasty crossbows that so many preppers unfortunately seem to purchase, then a Kevlar vest most likely will stop one of those light target bolts.
For proper HD crossbows, Broad heads (sharp ones) slice through the weave and could be superior to bullet point bolts if my memory serves me right. Bodkin heads are a different kettle of fish (where does that phrase come from?) and are also effective.
Just a note - spike points also penetrate Kevlar vests. The type fastened on a device and wielded effectively by hand.
Blunt trauma from hand held weapons is very effectively subdued by a Kevlar vest, but blunt trauma from a shotgun slug will still be a v.painful experience and quite possibly debilitating.

[BeardyMan]

(4 September 2013, 23:42)Timelord Wrote: blunt trauma from a shotgun slug will still be a v.painful experience and quite possibly debilitating.

A 65g shotgun slug will penetrate the engine block of a lorry - it'll definitely go through kevlar vest.

[Timelord]

Engine blocks are a hard material and the slug will smash its way in. A Kevlar vest is a soft armour and works differently. The blunt trauma would be like being hit by a serious [/i]mace edge though and that is why I said it would be debilitating.

[BeardyMan]

(6 September 2013, 23:41)Timelord Wrote: Engine blocks are a hard material and the slug will smash its way in. A Kevlar vest is a soft armour and works differently. The blunt trauma would be like being hit by a serious [/i]mace edge though and that is why I said it would be debilitating.

If it'll smash it's way into an engine block it'll destroy a person. No chance of survival.

Be better off not wearing the kevlar and taking the round. Penetration instead of Obliteration.

Gizzard everywhere, it'll be horrible, horrible I tell ya!

[Timelord]

If you get hit by a slug without the Kevlar it will be curtains. If you get hit by a slug with Kevlar and at a long range, then the impact might not be quite as bad as it would be at closer range and you might just survive. It is unlikely however that you would be up & moving about or in any state of cohesion immediately or for a while after the impact. The energy dump would be immense but the wearing of the Kevlar vest might make the difference between surviving or not. Of course the probability of wearing a Kevlar vest at the right time as being shot at with shotgun slugs and that they hit you on the Kevlar is exceedingly exceedingly low, so this is more of a technical point than a reality. Still it is a valid & interesting discussion and overlaps into other areas. Regards, TL :-)

[BeardyMan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SREIq0W9mc0

[Timelord]

Close range, against a supported hard thin wooden backing. What did you expect at that? Typical non scientific test with poor parameters. Any slug impact to the main torso or head at close range will be terminal. Obviously..
Interesting result, Is similar to musket shot at cast iron breastplates in the English Civil war, where the iron deformed into a bulging tunnel to the inside of the wearers torso to a depth of maybe 6 inches. Although the cast iron did not rupture and the lead musket ball did not break through, the depth of breastplate deformity must have been pretty uncomfortable!! Buff coats were reputed to be able to "turn" a musket ball. The evidence shows that this was possible some of the time. I have fired .45cal lead ball and also bullet at an old yellow leather rigger boot and much to my surprise some of the projectiles did indeed deflect off - BUT many didn't. I would need to conduct a more numerous test to get any meaningful data, but the initial tests did show the deflective properties of soft armours. That is why "Brigandines" became much more common at the end of the 15th and into the 16th Century due to the vast increased prevalence of large calibre lead ball hand held firearms. TL

[Midnitemo]

If your going to get shot by somebody with a shotgun after an event in the UK it's much more likely to be an sg load(00 buck to our american friends)as far more shotgunners can buy and hold it than slug rounds.thats my round of choice in all my shotguns bar the baikal 43 which is quite heavily choked and lightweight(not brave enough to put sg through it so this one will be BB)

[BeardyMan]

(8 September 2013, 00:49)Timelord Wrote: Close range, against a supported hard thin wooden backing. What did you expect at that? Typical non scientific test with poor parameters. Any slug impact to the main torso or head at close range will be terminal. Obviously..
Interesting result, Is similar to musket shot at cast iron breastplates in the English Civil war, where the iron deformed into a bulging tunnel to the inside of the wearers torso to a depth of maybe 6 inches. Although the cast iron did not rupture and the lead musket ball did not break through, the depth of breastplate deformity must have been pretty uncomfortable!! Buff coats were reputed to be able to "turn" a musket ball. The evidence shows that this was possible some of the time. I have fired .45cal lead ball and also bullet at an old yellow leather rigger boot and much to my surprise some of the projectiles did indeed deflect off - BUT many didn't. I would need to conduct a more numerous test to get any meaningful data, but the initial tests did show the deflective properties of soft armours. That is why "Brigandines" became much more common at the end of the 15th and into the 16th Century due to the vast increased prevalence of large calibre lead ball hand held firearms. TL

Well, they're American - what did you expect??

Was just to illustrate the point that although the slug may not pierce through the kevlar it'll push it straight through your insides. The kinetic energy imparted won't be used to penetrate, but it's spread out over a larger area. With some calibres this actually makes the injuries worse than if the round went straight into the flesh then out the other side.

[Midnitemo]

(8 September 2013, 10:24)BeardyMan Wrote:

(8 September 2013, 00:49)Timelord Wrote: Close range, against a supported hard thin wooden backing. What did you expect at that? Typical non scientific test with poor parameters. Any slug impact to the main torso or head at close range will be terminal. Obviously..
Interesting result, Is similar to musket shot at cast iron breastplates in the English Civil war, where the iron deformed into a bulging tunnel to the inside of the wearers torso to a depth of maybe 6 inches. Although the cast iron did not rupture and the lead musket ball did not break through, the depth of breastplate deformity must have been pretty uncomfortable!! Buff coats were reputed to be able to "turn" a musket ball. The evidence shows that this was possible some of the time. I have fired .45cal lead ball and also bullet at an old yellow leather rigger boot and much to my surprise some of the projectiles did indeed deflect off - BUT many didn't. I would need to conduct a more numerous test to get any meaningful data, but the initial tests did show the deflective properties of soft armours. That is why "Brigandines" became much more common at the end of the 15th and into the 16th Century due to the vast increased prevalence of large calibre lead ball hand held firearms. TL

Well, they're American - what did you expect??

Was just to illustrate the point that although the slug may not pierce through the kevlar it'll push it straight through your insides. The kinetic energy imparted won't be used to penetrate, but it's spread out over a larger area. With some calibres this actually makes the injuries worse than if the round went straight into the flesh then out the other side.

I'd say if you get tagged by a slug and its more than a glancing blow then it's lights out and game over. a lot of weight travelling at maybe 1350 fps dumping its energy into you...deffo a killer regardless of penetration of a vest imho.