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Pistol Crossbow
9 November 2013, 11:08,
#71
RE: Pistol Crossbow
I dont quiet know which side I fall on here, as I have a pistol crossbow,... but although I can agree with TLs piece above, it might not always be the case

I dont know if this is relevant or not, its a bit out of context,... but during the Viet Nam war, American GI found that the Viet Cong could,..and often did continue an attack after taking on board more than one round from the M16 Armalite rifle,...it was one of the reasons that the UK military didnt adopt that weapon.

So, it really comes down to how determind/committed,...or how angry, the attacker is as to weither he might back off or not.

If put another way,.. if someone is killing a loved one, would you continue an attack to help?, would you even notice a wound such as a crossbow bolt

I will finish as I started,...I really am sitting on the fence with this one
A major part of survival is invisibility.
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11 November 2013, 00:19,
#72
RE: Pistol Crossbow
(4 November 2013, 21:33)Skvez Wrote: You criticise the crossbow for not doing enough damage and then suggest a BB from a catapult!?

A crossbow bolt is unlikely to stop/kill someone instantly but it is very likely to at least crack a rib (if not break the rib or puncture the lung).
Find a friend who has cracked a rib at some point and ask them if they thought they could win a fist fight immediately after they cracked it. Most people can't even bear to breathe without one hand supporting the cracked rib (until it's strapped up).

Yes. A BB from a catapult will do similar damage in a vital area and will transfer all of its energy in a non vital area. You also have ammo everywhere you look. Xbow darts have to be bought or made. A catapult also faster to load and fire.

A catapult can crack a rib just as good as a dart, with the added bonus it is less likely to glance. The energy transfer could mean two ribs were done.

It is a bit of a red herring to ask if one could win a fist fight; a cracked rib is a cracked rib and it does not matter what did it. In a post SHTF situation, you are going to have to follow it up, otherwise the person with the cracked rib is going to go away and heal and follow up themselves, but with more preparation and determination.

I think a stairway was mentioned at some point in the thread - reality is, you would be better off with a pile of bricks.
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11 November 2013, 19:19,
#73
RE: Pistol Crossbow
(9 November 2013, 01:52)Timelord Wrote: Throw a teacup. It will be just as effective
Now you're being silly.
A crossbow bolt will do significantly more damage than a teacup.
Is a crossbow pointless - no. Is it as good as an AR 15 - no
Would an AR15 kill my attacker instantly 100% of the time even if I had one - no
A Crossbow (pistol or otherwise) is legal, I can own and practice with it.
Few fights are won in a single blow. If I can damage my opponent *before they close to melee range* I have a much better chance of winning the melee fight than I do if I just stand there like a prune waiting for them to close the distance.
The only other things you've suggested (hammers and bricks) have less penetration than a crossbow bolt, less range and are not as accurate.
Forget reloading, fire the pistol crossbow once then switch to melee mode (stick, knife etc).
The pistol crossbow should be considered as one piece in a defensive strategy including entanglement/ spike traps and a melee weapon.

(11 November 2013, 00:19)BDG Wrote: A BB from a catapult will do similar damage in a vital area and will transfer all of its energy in a non vital area.
Your mileage may vary but my crossbow bolts have a spiked end that penetrate better than a BB and I can aim the crossbow more accurately than I can a catapult, and I can fire it one handed holding my melee weapon ready in the other hand.
Doctor Prepper: What's the worst that could happen?
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12 November 2013, 14:40,
#74
RE: Pistol Crossbow
A favourite combination in earlier times was a pistol and rapier, discharge one shot and then attack with the blade. The pistol crossbow could be used in the same manner, in conjunction with something like a machete that does not require the same amount of skill to handle as a sword. I have one of the 80lb models and have tested it on a range of targets from point blank to thirty yards, and under ten yards I have no doubt it will penetrate deep enough to cause a lethal wound on a human in the chest area wearing "normal" clothes. I accept the arguments about "what if someone is wearing thick leather jackets", but as Timelord says that's the roll of the dice isn't it, and life is not always fair. The chances of this crossbow stopping you dead is slim, but it might buy you a bit of time. Over ten yards the small bolts lose velocity very quickly and subsequently energy on target and any thoughts of long shots should be forgotten as fantasy. For me the best scenario (if there is one) would be a hallway/passage where you only have to shoot straight ahead of you. Pull the trigger and then throw it at them.
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13 November 2013, 10:39, (This post was last modified: 13 November 2013, 10:49 by Midnitemo.)
#75
RE: Pistol Crossbow
i wouldn't advocate one but if you're determined not to / or precluded from a firearm then its definately better than nothing and i agree defending a passageway/staircase is probably the best use of a pistol crossbow at no more than 10 to 15ft.

the problem with the 5.56 round in the early stages of its introduction were that the round was to light(55grn) and travelling at such speed(Approx 3500+ fps) it was just punching knitting needle size holes in the victim and passing straigt through,if it missed all the vitals then the victim was sometimes able to remain a threat, there were also instances of this in the Falklands conflict as some special cadres such as the SAS / SBS and marine mountain and arctic warfare detachments were using 5.56 weapons , the problem was solved mostly by slowing the round slightly and increasing the size and shape of the bullet so that it tumbled on impact, meant to wound as much as kill as a wounded opponent uses resources on the battlefield
Nothing is fool proof for a sufficiently talented fool!!!!
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13 November 2013, 15:55,
#76
RE: Pistol Crossbow
Interesting reading the different opinions on this. I have an 80lb pistol crossbow as part of my defense strategy. I have stuck the bolts in a breezeblock wall at over 30' range however i envisage this as more a deterrent type weapon better used for hunting small game. If i need to fire it i suspect it will be a one shot deal then switch to machete, axe or spear for closer range (possibly with the other half reloading and firing over my shoulder).
Another point of interest to me is the c02 pistol and steel bearings. Have one of these that i use when airsofting (along with electric ak47, mp5 and mac10 lol). The electric guns wouldn't be capable of firing steel bb's but a spray of plastic bb's in the face would certainly hurt like hell and are capable of knocking out teeth. I have seen them do this, so easily capable of blinding someone. Im gonna order some 6mm steel bearings and give them a go in my c02 pistol. Incidently this is a full metal Colt45 gas blowback type thing which to the untrained eye is very realistic and would earn me a visit from the firearms squad of the local plod if i used it in public. Ill post and let folk know how i get on.
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13 November 2013, 23:25,
#77
RE: Pistol Crossbow
(11 November 2013, 19:19)Skvez Wrote: Your mileage may vary but my crossbow bolts have a spiked end that penetrate better than a BB and I can aim the crossbow more accurately than I can a catapult, and I can fire it one handed holding my melee weapon ready in the other hand.

I mentioned energy transfer, not penetration. Look up a couple of posts for it highlighted the difference energy transfer makes Re: AR15.





Now, your pistol crossbows (when they actually work) can get through a couple of milk jugs of water.

Stick with a pile of bricks for defending stairs or corridors.
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13 November 2013, 23:46, (This post was last modified: 13 November 2013, 23:58 by Midnitemo.)
#78
RE: Pistol Crossbow
very scientific that!!!! i would say the 50lb bow penetrated further due to the rigidity of the vessel's the 80lb one was trying to penetrate the containers when the rigidty had been released by the previous punctures ... pretty underwhelming to be honest.

ooops misfire....thats ok just pull the second trigger...oh! there isn't one....game over!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing is fool proof for a sufficiently talented fool!!!!
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13 November 2013, 23:59,
#79
RE: Pistol Crossbow
I agree,... the first bolt would always be the one to penetrate furthest no matter what the poundage pull,... what he should have done was have two lines of bottles filled to the same levels
A major part of survival is invisibility.
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14 November 2013, 01:26,
#80
RE: Pistol Crossbow
He did say it was not scientific - but a good catapult or brick would have annihilated the first milk jug. It is all about how available power is transferred.

Also remember that the hand held crossbow is only going to be a lot of use in the circumstance where you have one attacker in a confined space. Where you only have one person, they are more likely to be an explorer than an attacker. If you have more than one person, you get to shoot one person, then the other(s) will kill you to death, rather than group up or bargain.

It is of use against people as scare weapon, but then if you make a threat with it, people will see you as a threat and so engineer a situation to take you down.

It is a weapon of last resort, and should you bring it out, best off to bug out afterwards.
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