Survival UK Forums

I was once lucky enough to shoot a Rocky Mountain Hawken Percussion cap muzzle loader at Bridlington Rifle club, I think it was a .50/54?. Anyway this gun was a real work of art with a Maple stock and all that, and beautiful brass work around the butt end of the stock. The owner loaded it with what looked like (to me anyway) a bullet head, I expected a round ball. Honestly when I pulled the trigger I did not expect to happen what happened. It was all over so fast, and the target was obscured by smoke, but what a nice smell, a bit like bonfire night innit lol. I was expecting a little bit more lag from pulling the trigger to the gun firing as well. To be honest the kick was not as bad as I expected, it's just the shock of seeing a flame erupt from the end of the barrel and the ensuing smoke cloud. So if I could afford and own my dream gun it would be something like that, to my "Olde Worlde" eyes they seem easy to run and pretty tough, and with a source of lead and powder pretty self sufficient, and besides that, if nothing else they do look pretty.

there is no denying black powder gun's are quite magical to shoot....and I enjoyed them greatly but the lack of a back up or even a third quick shot severely limits there potential in a survival/shtf scenario.....but I'd still take one over any other kind of weapon....think I've just bought the perfect end of day's gun for me in the sales...a ruger 77/357...i'll reserve judgement til I've shot it but on paper it looks to be the business.

What is mental is that you can buy Pyrodex and ball/bullets percussion caps, but not the Gun lol. It truly is fked up.

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(5 January 2015, 11:57)Tartar Horde Wrote: [ -> ]What is mental is that you can buy Pyrodex and ball/bullets percussion caps, but not the Gun lol. It truly is fked up.

I know these guns aren't the most favoured for modern needs, but this was gun dreams, not gun practicality lol. There's only one practical gun for the apocalypse and it's an AK47, designed to do exactly what it says on the can.

AK doesn't fit my end of day's criteria....not accurate enough , not easy to keep fed(most ammo is not recyclable)that's not to say I wouldn't like to have one after rule of law ceases....the 77/357 fires both .38spl and .357 magnum both inherently cheap and easy to reload and cast bullets for...AK not so.....one pound of powder will make 2300 .38's or 1150 .357 magnums, the brass seems to go on forever.....will take most prey at short to medium ranges (0-150+m) is a proven manstopper....this provided it shoots as I expect will be my no1 end of days gun.

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Was in Henry Kranks on Saturday and somebody in the queue in front of me was refused some no10 percussion caps without an fac...I was surprised as I thought they were freely available unrestricted over the counter, i know primers are restricted.

I'm hoping my dreams can become reality soon enough. After what seems an age, I have my fao home visit tomorrow.

I have a black powder revolver, it's great fun and surprisingly accurate.

If everything goes well, I'm wanting the k22 whisper. If it's got to have the stupid length barrel, it may as well serve a proper purpose. Just a shame about the coathanger on the rear end but hey-ho, that's life I suppose.

(5 January 2015, 16:19)Midnitemo Wrote: [ -> ]AK doesn't fit my end of day's criteria....not accurate enough , not easy to keep fed(most ammo is not recyclable)that's not to say I wouldn't like to have one after rule of law ceases....the 77/357 fires both .38spl and .357 magnum both inherently cheap and easy to reload and cast bullets for...AK not so.....one pound of powder will make 2300 .38's or 1150 .357 magnums, the brass seems to go on forever.....will take most prey at short to medium ranges (0-150+m) is a proven manstopper....this provided it shoots as I expect will be my no1 end of days gun.

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Was in Henry Kranks on Saturday and somebody in the queue in front of me was refused some no10 percussion caps without an fac...I was surprised as I thought they were freely available unrestricted over the counter, i know primers are restricted.

My AK rifles are as accurate as any others I own. They will do 1 1/2"@100m with scope or a 3-4" group using the iron sights. You simply have to line up the sights before pulling the trigger, which many AK shooters fail to do.

AK ammo can be reloaded! Not the steel military rounds but commercial brass is reloadable. I have dies to do so, as well as bullet molds for the lead. The AK gas port is so big it takes a lot of rounds to lead over and will still function as a straight pull bolt action when it stops being semi auto.

I also have a 38/357 carbine. Keep in mind that the two rounds strike very different points of impact. You sight in for one and the other is going to be way off. That is so even between .38 target and defense loadings. Trajectory drops like a rock past 100m.

They are nice but they are not all purpose rifles.

I bought mine due to the .22lr ammo shortage over here. I reload .38 and they make a great replacement for the .22lr. More power, more range and cheaper than .22lr over here. They make excellent sort range varmint guns.

The trick to muzzle loading firearms is to go directly to flintlock and skip your dependency on percussion caps. If you have to have percussion caps you might as well be hunting for cartridges.

I built a new flintlock .54 rifle over the Christmas break out of parts I had lying about. That is what boredom will do to one, or create for one. Depends on how you look at it.

I will post pics as soon as the camera thaws. I left it in the truck and the temp out there is -10.

I only use one types of bullet head (158 grn rnfp) and two powders two .38 loads one .357 load I have been noting the difference in point of impact with all three loads using the club marlin so I know given whichever load I'm using what the point of impact will be and to adjust hold over/under accordingly will go through the same with the ruger .....after an event I would probably standardise on one round for economy(.38spl 3 grain's of zip over a cci 500 under a 158grn lrn)I have an 1894 on order as a partner piece in the same calibre for standardisation....ak not that common here and all the straight pulls I have seen at ranges up and down the country were using ex mil lacquered steel ammo...I've never seen reloadable ak ammo in this country...I know it exists cos ppu advertise some reloadable I have just never seen it which leads me to believe it will be rare over here.....I've yet to see 1.5 inch groups from an ak.. my experience is more like 5 inch at 100m(scoped and rested)

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£22-25 a hundred for military surplus versus £58 for reloadable ppu ammo

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I'd expect the 74 to group better

I went back into my picture archives and found the target I used for dialing in the scope on my AK on a much warmer and prettier day than today.

I was using Russian surplus ammo and the AK is box stock with no modifications. The group strung horizontally above the POA was the final result.



None of the groups are over 3" and they closed in as I shot.

That is deer killing accuracy, or self defense accuracy, out to 300M.

Still, the AK might not be ideal for individual situations, and certainly not under the legislative situation you deal with. And although I do really enjoy the versatility of the AK it is not my pick for overall best survival firearm.

And we are dealing with "gun dreams" so each of us can dream as we see fit.