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(3 February 2015, 18:49)Midnitemo Wrote: [ -> ]testing 3 loads 2 .38 spl and 1 .357mag.....18.5 barrel all using 158 grn lrn with a bc of .160 hoping for 750 + 900+ and 1200 fps for the magnum

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trying to keep the magnum at or near the range limit of 485 ft/lb....reckon theres plenty scope to stoke up the magnum quite a bit further.

I get those numbers from a 4" pistol barrel.

Out of an 18 inch rifle they should be easily achieved.

load 1 avge velocity 759.8 feet per second 203 ft/lb muzzle energy load 2 avge velocity 831.8 feet per second 243 ft/lb muzzle energy
load 3 avge velocity 1299.8 feet per second 593 ft/lb muzzle energy
figures achieved by firing a 5 shot string....pleased with the results but I can't use the .357 load at the indoor range oh well....need to figure out a load that gets nearer the range maximum for skittles and plates.....fingers crossed for you rob , keep us informed

Is this the 77/.357 you are working with??

With the POI and POA being different for "special" and "Magnum" loadings have you considered using two different scopes on quick detachable mounts, or even a double optic mounting system.

The modern QD offerings return to zero with good consistency and I have one on my 38/357 and another on the .223 I use with both jacketed and cast bullets.

I also use a scope with a red dot optic on one of my varmint guns I put to use in dim light conditions. The red dot sits at a 45% angle to the scope so it needs no change out and interferes with nothing.

And

What is the max power level for your indoor range?

You are winding up with a low level 38 target load, a mild .357 load, and a maximum .357 load??


Life is complicated.

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I think I'm going to cut out the trailboss load altogether(lowest power of the 3)and concentrate on the zip powered loads , the .38spl load is right down on the minimum charge that corresponds with being able to utilise a dipper (.3cc) so I'm going to up this using another method of metering as I'd like to push the .38 spl load up nearer the 1000 fps same with the .357 load (.5cc) going to up this load too just to see how flat it can shoot and how hard it can hit......has been hugely usefull collating this data as these three loads are still going to be my easiest option to build after an event....have thought about the varying poi's and poa's , I think I will look to getting a mil dot scope on the 77/357 to help with this and I am going to make some small laminated range cards to tape to the stock.....the 1894c will be sporting an ace in the hole and firesight fibre optic so long range will not not be its forte.

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I had thought of a piggy back red dot for close in with a 100m - 125m zero on the scope

What I have found when using .38/357 in the same barrel is that the .38 load is not just low, it is low and off center. That makes doping the poi more difficult than just holding a half mill up. I am holding two full dots up and 1 1/2 left @25m, or some such nonsense.

Trail Boss is as close to black powder as a smokeless can get. Over here we use a "different" method of loading that particular powder. You fill the case and deduct enough to allow the bullet to seat while just barely compressing the charge. That is your maximum safe load. In fact, that is how the mfg. recommends loading TB.

Then you adjust your measure to throw that charge and start loading.

That normally means that an empty .38 spl case would throw the exact charge needed for the .357.

A .38spl case cut off about 3/16", with a tube cutter, would throw about the correct charge for a .38 load.

Wind a bit of heavy copper wire around the rim groove and form a handle and you have a new set of measure in each caliber.

I have a number of the Lee powder dippers that I have trimmed down for exact loads of specific powders. In fact, I have used the same Lee plastic dipper trimmed down for 4.5 grains of Unique in .38spl loads for 40 years. I think it still has the same piece of duct tape on the handle I used to mark it as specific to that caliber and powder all those years ago.

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Now, as for piggy backing red dot and Trail Boss ????

I fear I must refer you to your own signature line for that reply!

yeah the red dot was only a brief thought.....it would after all by something like 3 inches above the bore!

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indoor range is certificated up to 1900fps and 475 ft/lb ... not highly policed by the club so some experimentation can be achieved if you pick your times when you can be alone in the range and don't overdo things by a huge margin

I am sorry Mo, I misread you previous post and thought you were referring to piggybacking powder loads of Trail Boss and Red Dot powder. Dual loads or staged powder charges are usually not a good idea.

Piggybacking a red dot optic and a scope is completely doable, and actually works well.

Our 3 gun match shooters are required to make quick hits on targets out to 50 yards and long range shots out to 200yards using the same gun. They almost all use the setup like I showed in the picture, with the red dot set at an angle so that it is not terribly high above the bore.

They simply turn the rifle a bit sideways to acquire the dot and place it on the target, and they can do it very fast.

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I am sorry Mo, I misread you previous post and though you were refereeing to a duplex load of Trail Boss and Red dot powders. Not usually a good idea.

Piggybacking a red dot optic on a scope is not only possible, it is often the answer to several problems.

Our "three gun" match shooters are required to hit close in targets rapidly and then transition to 200 yards instantly and with the same rifle. The normally use the red dot for the close fast work and the scope for long range precision.

My own setups work fine and I do not have either of them using the red dot way up in the air. they set to the side at an angle. We have mounts and rails available just for this style application.


http://www.shootingusa.com/SIGHTING_IN_S...i_gun.html

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Boy did I mess up this post!!!!

I thought the first one did not take and redid it.

well that's my gun cabinet 2/3 full now....going to wait til after the summer now for my next purchase(.308 sako a7 roughtech range/steyr scout sport or ruger gunsite scout..decisions decisions) going to concentrate on my preps again now as they've taken a backseat of late.

Sorry for bringing this back from the dead.

Despite me writing off my chances of a grant, I got a phonecall today informing me that my licences will be posted out to me tomorrow morning. My gun dreams live on. Now just got to see what they allowed & what they knocked back on my wish list.

Sorry Geordie Rob, but after all the ranting, hyperventilation, high blood pressure spikes and anger management issues I find the granting of the permits a bit amusing.

All that was really required was a bit of patience.

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At any rate, congratulations.